Buffy Sainte-Marie

[Kush]

Investigating Buffy Sainte-Marie’s claims to Indigenous ancestry - The Fifth Estate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMsqCWNCUc4

[199Dan]

Why is this post relevant to this site?

[Zimmer]

Why is this post relevant to this site?

Leonard knew her, she sang with him, she recorded some of his stuff like "The Bells" and "God is Alive, Magic is Afoot".
He said, she was a fantastic singer, he's Canadian, she wanted to be and they are together in this photo. That's enough for me.

[LisaLCFan]

Discussing Buffy Sainte-Marie in the "Other Music" section on this forum is certainly relevant, for the reasons Zimmer mentioned.

As for the questions and concerns (and allegations) raised in the Fifth Estate video and in the additional CBC wesbite written article (link provided below the video on Youtube -- a very interesting read, for anyone who may be interested in some further information about this).... Well, it is rather disturbing, shocking and sad, to see the (honestly quite damning) evidence that has been gathered and presented. It raises so many questions, and there are so many issues involved, if it is, indeed, the case that this famous "Indigenous Canadian" folksinger (who has reaped many benefits and rewards/awards in her lifetime under those pretences) is neither Indigenous nor Canadian...

[199Dan]

Thanks for your answer.
I now see why.

[Kush]

Celebrating her music !

Los Pescadores
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fx8stnODsE4

God is Alive, Magic is Afoot (Leonard Cohen)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJynaL4 ... c&index=14

Now that the Buffalo's Gone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgpiNLH ... c&index=17

My Country 'Tis of Thy People
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LL6gwI ... c&index=10

Guess Who I Saw in Paris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMue4sE ... c&index=15

Until it's Time for you to go
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0fD6ZK ... c&index=12

Universal Soldier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q09f1OE ... 9c&index=3

Cod'ine (Live 1963, Newport)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuFjA_-A0hc

[Kush]

https://www.popmatters.com/buffy-sainte ... -way-atr60

[199Dan]

https://www.popmatters.com/buffy-sainte ... -way-atr60

It's very important to remember that she was accepted by the indigenous community.

[LisaLCFan]

...It's very important to remember that she was accepted by the indigenous community.

I suppose that it is also very important to remember that, from the beginning of Buffy's career, she told everyone that she was Indigenous -- complete with a personal history that was entirely fabricated -- and thus she was not merely "accepted" by the Indigenous community, but they actually believed that she was one of them, that she shared their heritage. Had they known all along that she was actually a white American just posing as Indigenous, and not an actual Indigenous Canadian (as she led everyone to believe, for 60 years), then, she may still have been "accepted" as an outsider who was nontheless a supporter and kindred spirit of the Indigenous peoples (although there is no way to know for sure), but that is totally different.

Have you read these articles and other things since the revelation of Buffy's true background came out? There are a lot of difficult issues involved, and one cannot simply brush it off with superficial comments that fail to acknowledge the depth and complexity of learning that an icon of the Indigenous community isn't even Indigenous, that she made it all up and deceived everyone (perhaps even herself). That is kind of a big deal.

[199Dan]

It was not a brush off.
Yes, there are multiple issues here.
One of which is how indigenous people accept new members as full members with full rights and privileges.
I hope you can see the options with which others are more open to accepting new family members.
The Massachusetts Historical Society would be a nice spot to start.

[LisaLCFan]

It was not a brush off.
Yes, there are multiple issues here.
One of which is how indigenous people accept new members as full members with full rights and privileges.
I hope you can see the options with which others are more open to accepting new family members.
The Massachusetts Historical Society would be a nice spot to start.

Thank you, yes, I am aware of the fact that Indigenous Nations sometimes adopt people (even non-Indigenous people) into their communities, and that Buffy Sainte-Marie is one of those adoptees. When I said that she is not Indigenous, I was referring only to her birth origins, and the fact that she claimed to have been born on a reservation in Canada to Indigenous parents, which now appears not to be the case. However, in all fairness, I should have noted that, as an adult, she became recognised as Indigenous when she was adopted by the Piapot First Nation in Canada, and therefore she has the right to call herself Indigenous on that basis, but not on the basis of her birth, which is what she had been doing.

I just wish that she had not felt the need to misrepresent her birth origins from the beginning of her career (and before she was adopted by the Piapot). It is harmful to others when a person claims to be something that they aren't, when they claim to share a history and experiences and traumas with a distinct group of people, only to later learn that they made it all up. All of those Indigenous people who believed that Buffy was actually born on a Canadian reservation and taken from her birth parents, uprooted from her culture as a baby, a victim of colonialism, as were so many Indigenous Canadians -- they were duped, because that was not her personal history. Empathising with people and their histories and their plights and their experiences is one thing, but claiming that you had the same experiences and the same background, when you didn't -- well, I think that there is something really wrong with that -- it is a deep betrayal, and it makes me very sad when people do things like that.

I have nothing more to say on the subject. Adieu.

[199Dan]

Thanks for responding.

Just glad you see it was not a bush off.

[Squidgy]

Well it hit the front page today-- Buffy Sainte-Marie officially has been stripped of her indigenous status.
I have no idea what the "damning evidence" is that's being used against her. AFAIK it's only her birth certificate--? Gimme a break!
She was adopted!!! Erasing 1 or both birth parents, and substituting the adoptive parents' names on the birth certificate, is standard operating procedure in legal adoptions.
In most states in the US, the "legal" father on the birth certificate is determined by nothing more than the mother's statements. If she's married, her husband is assumed to be the father. If she's unmarried, the father is whichever boyfriend she chooses to name.
If the biological father does not volutarily claim paternity at birth, he essentially forfeits his paternal rights & responsibilities, and the "father" portion is left blank on the birth certificate. If mother later marries, she can insert her new husband's name, without even asking permission of the biological father, effectively blocking future claims. The DNA test has been available on request if biological parentage is challenged, but until very recently has not been mandatory.
Several states are now drafting legislation to correct this chaotic & imprecise determination of parentage, by requiring DNA testing of EVERY child at birth. IMO this is long overdue, but of course some people are fighting it, claiming violation of "privacy."

What does all this have to do with Buffy Sainte Marie?
She says her **adoptive** parents' names were put on her birth certificate, and I absolutely believe her. (Apparently, from what I understand, she doesn't know the names of her biological parents--? Also typical in adoptions.)
It was--and still is-- quite common for white people to adopt indigenous children and erase their heritage. Calling her a liar for reclaiming her biological heritage simply adds insult to injury.
Only an idiot would look at her and insist she's "white."
I hope she gets DNA testing and sues her accusers until they bleed money.

[Zimmer]

Seems simple, she is either indigenous or a complete fraud. The technology to determine which is available.

[LisaLCFan]

Well it hit the front page today-- Buffy Sainte-Marie officially has been stripped of her indigenous status...

Not accurate. A few days ago, Buffy St. Marie was "stripped" of her "Order of Canada" -- or, to use the proper terminology, her Order of Canada was terminated. The Order of Canada is an honorary award bestowed on individuals by the Government of Canada, and it can be terminated on various grounds, but not before a rather lengthy termination procedure is undertaken, based upon reasonable and sufficient grounds to do so. (If you can show me the "front page" that claims that she has "officially has been stripped of her indigenous status", I'd like to see it.)

I have no idea what the "damning evidence" is that's being used against her. AFAIK it's only her birth certificate--?...

There is quite a bit more to it than that. Based on your remarks, you clearly have not watched the Fifth Estate documentary, nor read any of the numerous articles discussing this matter in length. Perhaps before writing a long diatribe, one ought to do more thorough research.

Only an idiot would look at her and insist she's "white."

That comment is idiotic.

I hope she gets DNA testing and sues her accusers until they bleed money.

Thus far, she has refused to get DNA tested.