"God does not play dice with the universe"
well, AE frequently used the term God to refer to......
melancholic...
Thanks Dem [and Linda for the more specific instructions]. Extremely well written with excellent information article, Dem. Going by the few details you've given on him, Cavafy was an atypical and very interesting person. Unsurprizing that Leonard resonates with him and his work. Fortunately, Leonard's song does just as well 
for a woman dealing with the loss 
of a beloved man. I don't know if you've already gone, searched, and found....however, I'm going now to search for the woman I told you about.
Lizzytysh
for a woman dealing with the loss of a beloved man. I don't know if you've already gone, searched, and found....however, I'm going now to search for the woman I told you about.Lizzytysh
Dear Sandra...
In various articles, Leonard has spoken of his change in mental/emotional status, with one comment being to the effect of waking up and realizing that this [i.e. joyous/good mood] must be how other people have been feeling all along. If you go to Jarkko's collection of articles, as well as Marie's [link here on Jarkko's site], you should come across some of his own comments on it. It's been very heartening for him, as well as others.
Elizabeth
In various articles, Leonard has spoken of his change in mental/emotional status, with one comment being to the effect of waking up and realizing that this [i.e. joyous/good mood] must be how other people have been feeling all along. If you go to Jarkko's collection of articles, as well as Marie's [link here on Jarkko's site], you should come across some of his own comments on it. It's been very heartening for him, as well as others.
Elizabeth
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sally
I read that too, lizzytysch and I am so glad for him. To suffer, as Leonard has, has made him a wonderful poet. Now, though, to hear that he finally has joy, well his new-found joy has not made his new peotry and songs less wonderful. I am putting this badly, 
I know. I am going to go the site you recommended to Sandra and read the articles there.
I know. I am going to go the site you recommended to Sandra and read the articles there. Actually, Sally, I feel that's a very important distinction, that you've made and with which I agree....his uplifted mood and spirit have not had a negative impact on his songs. Rather, they have come right along with him and have enjoyed the positive. Your phrasing of it was just fine..... Even though some might say that the music itself is attributable to Sharon, rather than Leonard, we all know that he is so exacting and determinant in the final product, that were it not suited to where he's at, we would never have heard the first chord. So, all that we hear is still reflective of him. The reflection is a peaceful one.
Lizzytysh
Lizzytysh
Pardon me for jumping in here...but I've been meaning to add a few thoughts regarding this topic.
I think that it is important to remember that Leonard has said that the best advice he ever got was from Roshi when he said, "Leonard, you should sing more sad." So I think that part of his persona is created to reflect this view. I don't doubt that he has battled depression as it is well documented, but remember he still needed to make a living and sell records and part of this is his professional stance to appeal to his fans.
Regarding the whole C-W question, I once read (but I don't know where) that his early musicians (Charlie Daniels etc.) didn't know what to make of him. I saw him in 1970 with this band and the version that they did of "Tonight will be Fine" was completely country-much more so than the version on "Songs From a Room."
In Ira Nadel's, "Various Positions" there is a great story about how they got caught up in a traffic jam in France and took horses to a concert (Nadel pointed out that the musicians were mostly from Texas and Tennessee and rode, and that Leonard had ridden at camp). They stopped at French "Texas B'B'que" joint and drank much red wine. When they reached the concert, Leonard rode the horse on to the stage and the horse reared back as they reached the top. Wouldn't that have been an incredible experience to witness.
Charlie Daniels stayed at a hotel that I was working at a long time ago, and I would have liked to ask him about Leonard...but when I met him, it was not the best circumstances. I was walking out of the kitchen, it was about 2:30 in the afternoon and we only had one waitress on and she was in the back doing side work. When I walked through, I saw this guy with an immense ten gallon hat, smiled at him, and he looked rather crabby and said, "Can I get some service here!" I didn't think it was a good time, but I was so much younger then, I would have bothered him now until he told me to go away! (Not really, I still respect people's sense of privacy).
I like this new board.
All the best,
Joe
I think that it is important to remember that Leonard has said that the best advice he ever got was from Roshi when he said, "Leonard, you should sing more sad." So I think that part of his persona is created to reflect this view. I don't doubt that he has battled depression as it is well documented, but remember he still needed to make a living and sell records and part of this is his professional stance to appeal to his fans.
Regarding the whole C-W question, I once read (but I don't know where) that his early musicians (Charlie Daniels etc.) didn't know what to make of him. I saw him in 1970 with this band and the version that they did of "Tonight will be Fine" was completely country-much more so than the version on "Songs From a Room."
In Ira Nadel's, "Various Positions" there is a great story about how they got caught up in a traffic jam in France and took horses to a concert (Nadel pointed out that the musicians were mostly from Texas and Tennessee and rode, and that Leonard had ridden at camp). They stopped at French "Texas B'B'que" joint and drank much red wine. When they reached the concert, Leonard rode the horse on to the stage and the horse reared back as they reached the top. Wouldn't that have been an incredible experience to witness.
Charlie Daniels stayed at a hotel that I was working at a long time ago, and I would have liked to ask him about Leonard...but when I met him, it was not the best circumstances. I was walking out of the kitchen, it was about 2:30 in the afternoon and we only had one waitress on and she was in the back doing side work. When I walked through, I saw this guy with an immense ten gallon hat, smiled at him, and he looked rather crabby and said, "Can I get some service here!" I didn't think it was a good time, but I was so much younger then, I would have bothered him now until he told me to go away! (Not really, I still respect people's sense of privacy).
I like this new board.
All the best,
Joe
Hi Joe
Those are some very interesting tidbits of info. I remember Roshi's comment; however, I took it as a comment in response to that particular day's/night's recording session, where Roshi slept a good deal, anyway. I've never considered that Leonard's vocals might be for fan-pleasing purposes. Now that I am considering it, I have to revert to their being more for himself in expressing the song and its feeling best. By the time Roshi was making that comment, Leonard's fans were well-entrenched and would buy whether his voice was slightly higher or slightly lower, slightly happy or slightly more sad.
And, actually, I took Roshi's comment as being his sense of humour, i.e. meaning Leonard sings with that "sadness" no matter what, none more needed, with Roshi's comment being on the pervasiveness of that emotion in Leonard's work. Is the word "irony" what I'm looking for here? Or, just an understatement way of giving Leonard his approval of what he was singing. Or perhaps, with the monastery effect, Leonard really was having a particularly good day, and his voice reflected it, and Roshi was suggesting he not be so sing-songy about it. You may be right; however, that's not the sense of it that I get.
Leonard has also made a comment regarding the seriousness of his performances, and that his audiences deserve the experience to be that way, rather than a sing-songy get-together kind of thing. He puts all of that seriousness into his music to get it to us, it's one of the things we appreciate about it, and he's not about to make the whole affair frivolous when he brings it to us in person. I also feel that this is a reflection of his own values, rather than his being audience-pleasing, though he certainly is that, regardless.
The horse scene is classic ~ Leonard Rogers Cohen, even the rearing up of the horse as if on cue. I know Leonard had to love that experience, that C&W part of him, BBQ and all. I believe Leonard also had his own horse [one of the challenging varieties, as I recall] when he lived in the cabin outside of Nashville, or at least in Tennessee.
It would be interesting to hear that rendition of Tonight Will Be Fine. I can imagine its going country very easily, without much effort on their part.
Not the best timing with Charlie Daniels, eh? It doesn't sound like he was much in the mood to talk at that point. Maybe post-dinner with dessert and/or drink on the house might have brought you a bit of decent conversation.
I really love the horse scene. Too bad it wasn't captured on film.
Lizzytysh
Those are some very interesting tidbits of info. I remember Roshi's comment; however, I took it as a comment in response to that particular day's/night's recording session, where Roshi slept a good deal, anyway. I've never considered that Leonard's vocals might be for fan-pleasing purposes. Now that I am considering it, I have to revert to their being more for himself in expressing the song and its feeling best. By the time Roshi was making that comment, Leonard's fans were well-entrenched and would buy whether his voice was slightly higher or slightly lower, slightly happy or slightly more sad.
And, actually, I took Roshi's comment as being his sense of humour, i.e. meaning Leonard sings with that "sadness" no matter what, none more needed, with Roshi's comment being on the pervasiveness of that emotion in Leonard's work. Is the word "irony" what I'm looking for here? Or, just an understatement way of giving Leonard his approval of what he was singing. Or perhaps, with the monastery effect, Leonard really was having a particularly good day, and his voice reflected it, and Roshi was suggesting he not be so sing-songy about it. You may be right; however, that's not the sense of it that I get.
Leonard has also made a comment regarding the seriousness of his performances, and that his audiences deserve the experience to be that way, rather than a sing-songy get-together kind of thing. He puts all of that seriousness into his music to get it to us, it's one of the things we appreciate about it, and he's not about to make the whole affair frivolous when he brings it to us in person. I also feel that this is a reflection of his own values, rather than his being audience-pleasing, though he certainly is that, regardless.
The horse scene is classic ~ Leonard Rogers Cohen, even the rearing up of the horse as if on cue. I know Leonard had to love that experience, that C&W part of him, BBQ and all. I believe Leonard also had his own horse [one of the challenging varieties, as I recall] when he lived in the cabin outside of Nashville, or at least in Tennessee.
It would be interesting to hear that rendition of Tonight Will Be Fine. I can imagine its going country very easily, without much effort on their part.
Not the best timing with Charlie Daniels, eh? It doesn't sound like he was much in the mood to talk at that point. Maybe post-dinner with dessert and/or drink on the house might have brought you a bit of decent conversation.
I really love the horse scene. Too bad it wasn't captured on film.
Lizzytysh
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Andrew McGeever
- Posts: 905
- Joined: Sun Jul 07, 2002 10:02 pm
Melancholic?
I haven't read all the correspondence on this theme, but enough to offer two points..
1. Some correspondents clearly don't know the meaning(s) of the word...look it up in a decent dictionary.
2. There is a rich vein of HUMOUR in Leonard's writing...he plays, conjours with words and metaphors...he has FUN!!!
Both in his poetry and songwriting, he often offers himself as a juggler, one who spins conundrums, inviting the reader/listener to guess which way things will fall, if at all.
1. Some correspondents clearly don't know the meaning(s) of the word...look it up in a decent dictionary.
2. There is a rich vein of HUMOUR in Leonard's writing...he plays, conjours with words and metaphors...he has FUN!!!
Both in his poetry and songwriting, he often offers himself as a juggler, one who spins conundrums, inviting the reader/listener to guess which way things will fall, if at all.