a line at a time

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 4:57 pm

And with another suggestion from a friend, I've altered mine again....it now reads much smoother and softer....so my line is one of cooperation in the interest of the whole. Thank you for your suggestions, you two. You know who you are......

~ even though I coulda still pulled it out.

~ La Poetess Elizabeth

Great contribution, there, Partisan

~ minimizes the risk of unsolicited [ahem] criticism, that's for sure

.

Pete · Post by **Pete** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:22 pm

Poetess Elizabeth
I liked your first entry.. it had potential for the next contributor
but then again, I like your third? edit. What a performance for just one line

Do we have a masterpiece in the making?

Godzilla
Could you do the gentlemanly ( or monsterly) thing and delete your response? ... unless it was intended to be part of the poem

Thankyou in anticipation

Pete

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 8:36 pm

Yes, well, lest I be accused of failure [or more likely, inability

] to cooperate, and in the interest of goodwill ~ since such lovely alternatives were offered me [it would be my third edit, only because I forgot to change the two words offered by the second contributing friend, and instead inadvertently did one at a time] ~ I decided to go with the changes.

Yes, thank you. I also liked my first, was well aware of the meter issue when I wrote it, and still saw much potential, some of which I could have easily manifested myself. Haiku and other forms go outside the "norms," as well. However, we'll keep it simple, as long as the alternatives meet the basic needs, which they did/do.

However, thank you for your affirmation of the worth of my original. Hey, another day, another poem

~ always seeking that masterpiece. The upside ~ perhaps now, people will leave me alone when I say, "I don't write poetry.

"

~ Elizabeth

Godzilla · Post by **Godzilla** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:18 pm

AAAAARRRRRRUUUUGH Pete,

Always happy to be a gentlemanly monster.

Godzilla

Partisan · Post by **Partisan** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 9:21 pm

Tysh darling may i humbly suggest you desist from pontificating on poetry. All you do with each subsequent post is highlight an ever shallower understanding than i at first thought. Haiku is possibly THE most rigid form in poetry. Attempting to cite it as justification for your original mess of a line is breathtaking.

p.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 10:05 pm

Get off your soapbox, Partisan. It has nothing to do with knowledge, presumed knowledge. Justification? I didn't need justification. The only justification I needed was that I liked it and put it there. What I put there re: Haiku has to do with justification for being "out of alignment" with the "norms" of poetry.....regardless of how exacting Haiku is in its own right, of which I happen to have been fully aware for a number of years. Did you really think you were bringing new information to me, as a cat brings a dead bird to the doorstep?

As far as knowledge of poetry, per se, is concerned.....wherever you got the daft idea, that I knew much of anything about it, was of your own, delusional making. I've certainly never made such wide-sweeping claims. My singular point remains that the line was fully "rescuable," had it even been in danger ~ which it wasn't; and that going outside of the "norm" [Haiku being outside the norm of "standard" poetry ~ even to the extent that it is rigidly so] is fully acceptable, though I don't need to look for justification to do so. It was your own O.C.D. nature that brought us to this point in the first place. Save the "pontificating" hyperbole for something of greater measure and meter

. Meanwhile, let's give some thought to the word "humbly."

~ Tysh

Partisan · Post by **Partisan** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:19 am

Tysh darling, Haiku IS one of the norms. Sometimes i feel you could go to your grave swearing on the bible that black is white. It is a good example of what has frustrated people trying to have discussions with you in the past. You do not say what you mean, you ascribe meaning to what others say that is not there. Hang on, i just had a thought. Could this be why you admire Judith's writing so much?

p.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:37 pm

Haiku is unto itself, having very prescribed structure ~ unlike the "majority" of "poetry," wherein the country of its origin in specific; the specific number of syllables allowed is prescribed; the number of lines is prescribed; the order/pattern of the lines containing the prescribed #of syllables is prescribed; the topic categories are prescribed; and the lack of rhyme as an element is prescribed. Now, if you feel that these criteria fall within the "norm," Partisan, then I can certainly understand why it is so difficult for you and I to communicate! Thankfully so on my part.

"haiku (HY-koo) noun:

"A form of Japanese verse having three unrhymed lines of five, seven, and five syllables respectively, involving allusions and references to nature or seasons."

Haiku is certainly one of the accepted styles considered to be poetry. It is one of the specific forms of poetry and all Haiku will be considered poetry, but not by a long shot will most or the typical ["norm"] of poetry be considered haiku.

"Norm: A standard, model, or pattern. 2. A rule or standard of behavior expected of each member of a social group. 3. a behavior pattern or trait considered typical of a particular social group. 4. the general level or average. 5. Educ . a. a designated standard of average performance of people of a given age, background, etc. b. a standard based on the past average performance of a given individual."

In that the definition of Haiku is "a form of Japanese verse....," Haiku can't necessarily even be considered the norm for Japanese poetry, much less poetry in general.

You are confusing the word "norm" with "precisely-structured prerequisites," which is nowhere near the same as "norm."

As for my own communication style, Partisan, I say exactly what I mean. If I feel I haven't, I Edit or revisit it in another post, to ensure that I have.

Again, climb down off your soapbox as you try to suggest why frustration might exist with others with regard to communicating with me. Whatever you mean by black vs. white, who knows. I admire Judith's writing for many reasons. Perhaps you don't because you lack understanding of words as simple as "norm" when someone comments that Haiku is not the norm for poetry?

Anne · Post by **Anne** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 11:30 pm

Haiku is a well known form of poetry that has been around for a very long time. It is easy to see why some may view it as a norm.

Byron · Post by **Byron** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:05 am

One of my best friends has a haiku, which he feeds on slowly fermenting mixed metaphors and syllables over a 'period.' Sometimes he lets me play with it and other times he lets me play with it as well as he does.
I'd like to have one 'but,' 'however' is the usual fare.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:22 am

Anne ~ Being around a long time has nothing to do with its prevalence of usage by poets. "Ecstatic" poetry [as in Rumi] has been around a long time, as well. However, it wouldn't be considered the "norm," either. Geisha Girls have been around a long time, too....but they're not the norm for how women treat men ~ even in Japan ~ and few, I daresay, who perceive it to be. To the dismay

of some men, I'm sure, on the last one

.

For Partisan's benefit, I will state it still another way: Geisha-style is not the norm for how women treat men any more than Haiku is the norm for how people write poetry ~ or stated in the reverse: Haiku is not the norm for how people write poetry any more than Geisha-style is the norm for how women treat men.

In addition, Partisan, contrary to your implications, there a many people with whom I am able to communicate very effectively.

~ Elizabeth

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:23 am

Byron ~

You are so punny