Leonard Cohen and women in his work

[Red Poppy]

I thought the area of Leonard and women - as in their appearance and treatment in his work - might be an interesting subject on which to hear the collective or disparate thoughts of posters.
I'm still gathering my own thoughts but I throw the subject out there for your consideration and, of course, your comments.

[Manna]

Whether Italian, German or English, I do believe it's gibberish.

RP - I'll get to your question sometime in the week, I promise.

[blonde madonna]

Red Poppy, have you read this?:

http://www.canadianpoetry.ca/cpjrn/vol33/crate.htm

What do you think?

[Red Poppy]

I will read your link and get back to you on that Madonna.
In the meantime bon tutti frutti par savon del amitri constatina per gigolo des mas hacht in flusterburger. No tro damus est un grande poo poo est le michelin hiomme est dans la France que tout divise. Chaqu'un le tout, touse par l'etat. Slan is beannacht ta me ag dul a codladh anois.
If you lot can take te piss out of my thread I feel thorougly justified in taking the piss out of you.
Sangria de Christi, mouchon, le grand ballons de chamois.

[ispellit]

I second that, Red Poppy!
BTW.: you have a real gift for languages

[Joney]

ta me ag dul a codladh anois

Suas an staighre anois!

That article doesn't really give a very nice impression of Leonard Cohen does it? I only know his music, haven't read his poetry (new fan) have I missed something or is the article unfavourable?

[lordbyron]

I thought the article was rather blasphemous myself.

[damellon]

"La rondine si riconosce per le lunghe e filiformi timoniere esterne. Ha le parti superiori blu metallico scuro, fronte e gola castane, parte bassa della gola blu scuro e il resto delle parti inferiori bianco crema.
I giovani sono molto più opachi, con timoniere esterne più corte. Il volo agile e aggraziato spesso molto veloce e scivolante.
La loro alimentazione è costituita da insetti che vengono catturati in volo, inseguiti a diverse altezze dal suolo a seconda della specie e delle condizioni di bassa o alta pressione atmosferica.
In volo possono compiere qualsiasi tipo di acrobazia grazie alla coda ampia e biforcuta e alle ali lunghe e appunti. A terra, invece, il portamento è goffo a causa delle corte zampe e così si posa di rado al suolo. Lo fa più spesso quando deve costruire il nido raccogliendo il fango ai bordi delle pozzanghere.
Il nido viene costruito dalla coppia dopo otto giorni d'intenso lavoro ed è usato ogni anno per almeno un decennio e più dalla medesima coppia. Il periodo riproduttivo inizia a metà maggio a sud, sino a giugno inoltrato a nord. Le covate annuali sono 2-3, le uova deposte 4 5." Seth cohen

Thanks for the information about nest making, in-flight acrobatics, bugs captured mid-flight, wide and bifurcate tails. Is this a joke on the interchangeability of the words 'women' and 'birds'? or just a flight of fancy?

[ispellit]

I thought the article was rather blasphemous myself.

I thought so too, Byron.

Morover, I do regard scrutinizing poets or other artist too much as a pretty dangerous thing. As I told on another discussion before, I recall LC once telling in an interview that he rarely recalls the feelings or the mood in which he had been writing certain pieces. [Unfortunately I can't find the interview right now, if anyone knows where to find it, I'd be thankful.]
The only thing I found is this:

"My memory is not so good, you know, in fact, I’ve been blessed with amnesia, I hardly remember anything from the past, so that’s made me a very unsentimental person, I don’t have any good memories, or bad memories, so it’s okay. But I very rarely review my memories. " Oslo, 1994

My comprehension of his work has ever been rather intuitionally than literally. I understand him by recognizing many of his poemy as simply matching my life and my soul in an emotional way. And I'm sure that LC, aside from the fact that he lets us participate in passing though his soul, likes each of us to explore and experience each piece in our own way. That is, as I take it, what makes his art touching each of us as deeply as it does.

[Red Poppy]

Thanks for pointing me to that article Madonna.
A few interesting point, a lot of trite and too clever by far punning to make it a serious analysis.
I found it way off the mark in some things - particularly the contribution on the poem For Anne.
Still interested in hearing other opinions, though from most of the above, there's not a great interest in the subject.

[blonde madonna]

An anecdote:
At a party once, he approached a beautiful woman, took a strand of her long hair, dipped it into his wine glass, slowly sucked it dry, let it fall and walked away without saying a word.

A quote:
"Women stand for the objective world for man. They stand for the thing you're not and that's what you always reach for in a song."

The songs about particular women:
Suzanne, So Long Marianne, Chelsea Hotel, Sisters of Mercy

Songs that contain gems about man/woman relations:
I'm your man, Why don't you try, There is a war, Take this longing, The smokey life, Paper thin hotel, Light as the breeze, Is this what you wanted, Humbled in love...(far from finished)

A recent interview:
http://happyparadise.wordpress.com/2007 ... adies-man/

[st theresa]

Leonard's absolute honesty with words sometimes freaks people out. He is the first to admit that words cannot really do justice to most subjects and then he tries to find the words to describe his observations and thoughts.
I love the pic I found for my avatar from a Playboy article on Leonard. Does Leonard objectify women? You can hardly write about anything without objectifying it. Glorifying or denigrating are really the same thing--me trying to express some very personal ideas thoughts or conceptions in a way that is real. Does he denigrate men when he sings, if you want a jewish doctor I'll examine every inch of you? Perhaps by some standards.

[jimbo]

doctors have allthe gendres
slip or slide

[Manna]

I said I would get to this in the week, and I never did, so here I am trying to fulfill my promise by the end of the official week. I've read things before that give examples of places where Leonard's writing of women seems less than favourable. I don't enjoy reading them, but I also cannot deny that they hold a grain of truth. The way one person understands something willnever be exactly the same way another person understands it. But the feeling I get from Leonard regarding women, in general, is that he worships us. I like men who worship women.

[jimbo]

Icould give my body heart snd
soul to a woman who would do
the same for me....................and hold ner hand.watch us grow old together

jimbo