a question for women
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linda_lakeside
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Anne-Marie
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tom.d.stiller
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I never thought it that important to learn to be a woman. Nor would I give much importance to be a man.Sandra wrote:it seems that you are learning to be a woman Anne Marie!
I'd rather have we'd learn to be human. This happens, if at all, long after first lettings of semen or menstrual blood.
tom
PS to Anne-Marie: I hereby declare that I fully agree with Linda's remarks. I'd use harsher words, though, but let's be gentle...
t.
I find it so terribly sad that we've become so used to the nastiness in this forum that we don't recognise an offer of help - albeit offered with a touch of humour. "Scanning" something in, in my experience, means getting the information into one's computer so that it can be e-mailed to those who need it. But the offer was met with an accusation of "snide remarks".....
I found this thread and expected something relevant and interesting (god knows why, given the recent history of this forum - but then... hope springs eternal...) and was appalled when I found what it was in fact about. It's one of those things that are so terribly inappropriate that you (figuratively) stare open-mouthed. Menstruation is a normal biological function of the female human body - like digestion, defecation, etc. To raise any of those subjects in this type of public forum is tacky and in the worse possible taste. I'm sure there are feminine and/or medical / psychological forums where the subject would be appropriate and would elicit the kind of "serious" response so craved, or it can be discussed privately - it's rather easy to create your own private chatroom on mIRC, and email the address to female and other sympathetic forum members. The most logical course would be to discuss it face to face with one's close friends and family members.
Mind you - this is just my humble opinion and I really don't have to be here... and wouldn't have if I didn't feel a need to comment on the unfortunate suspicion of ill intent aimed at a genuine fairly long time member of the forum.
I found this thread and expected something relevant and interesting (god knows why, given the recent history of this forum - but then... hope springs eternal...) and was appalled when I found what it was in fact about. It's one of those things that are so terribly inappropriate that you (figuratively) stare open-mouthed. Menstruation is a normal biological function of the female human body - like digestion, defecation, etc. To raise any of those subjects in this type of public forum is tacky and in the worse possible taste. I'm sure there are feminine and/or medical / psychological forums where the subject would be appropriate and would elicit the kind of "serious" response so craved, or it can be discussed privately - it's rather easy to create your own private chatroom on mIRC, and email the address to female and other sympathetic forum members. The most logical course would be to discuss it face to face with one's close friends and family members.
Mind you - this is just my humble opinion and I really don't have to be here... and wouldn't have if I didn't feel a need to comment on the unfortunate suspicion of ill intent aimed at a genuine fairly long time member of the forum.
"... to make a pale imitation of reality with twenty-six juggled letters"
"... all words are lies because they can only represent one of many levels of being"
Sober noises of morning in a marginal land.
"... all words are lies because they can only represent one of many levels of being"
Sober noises of morning in a marginal land.
Oh my. Appropriate or not, the thread surfaced and responses appeared, Anne-Marie's included. Her response seemed quite natural to me. Quite natural to a young woman, feeling a bit non-plussed by something that can be the source of literal pain, headaches, teasing, sudden and unexpected embarrassment, and time lost from valued activities. Like some people who make their points with brief exclamations, hers seemed typical in that way. I could hear that identical exclamation being made in a group of women discussing the same thing.
In or out of context, "LIKE HELL!" to the idea of its being "a gift" [she's not the only one who's ever pulled something out of context to make a general point] when it can be many things that are never considered so wonderful and valued as a gift. In fact, some here refer to that process as "The Curse".
Anne-Marie's exclamation was an enthusiastic objection on her own part.....a way of [humourously] saying, "This is no fun," and, again [humourously] suggesting that she may trade in this 'gift' for the process that awaits at the other end, a way of saying she'd like to jump over the whole of the process, like the "long jump" or "pole vaulting" in sports ~ not as a derogative toward those already in or approaching that position, but simply using it as a symbol for "a guarantee to get me out of this!"
Then, she offers to scan whatever the article was that she was reading. That's simple enough. For her, the information had value. Who knows, perhaps, it may have had value for others. Thanks for your input, Anne-Marie, and thanks for your offer of scanning it. Younger people tend to express themselves differently than older ones, but your means of expressing yourself is very normal for your age group; but I can attest to having heard women, far closer to my age than yours, express themselves in identical manner on this very same issue. I look forward to seeing your
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Love,
Elizabeth
In or out of context, "LIKE HELL!" to the idea of its being "a gift" [she's not the only one who's ever pulled something out of context to make a general point] when it can be many things that are never considered so wonderful and valued as a gift. In fact, some here refer to that process as "The Curse".
Anne-Marie's exclamation was an enthusiastic objection on her own part.....a way of [humourously] saying, "This is no fun," and, again [humourously] suggesting that she may trade in this 'gift' for the process that awaits at the other end, a way of saying she'd like to jump over the whole of the process, like the "long jump" or "pole vaulting" in sports ~ not as a derogative toward those already in or approaching that position, but simply using it as a symbol for "a guarantee to get me out of this!"
Then, she offers to scan whatever the article was that she was reading. That's simple enough. For her, the information had value. Who knows, perhaps, it may have had value for others. Thanks for your input, Anne-Marie, and thanks for your offer of scanning it. Younger people tend to express themselves differently than older ones, but your means of expressing yourself is very normal for your age group; but I can attest to having heard women, far closer to my age than yours, express themselves in identical manner on this very same issue. I look forward to seeing your
.Love,
Elizabeth
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Tchocolatl
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Your anger really calls my attention....!!
__"It's one of those things that are so terribly inappropriate that you (figuratively) stare open-mouthed. Menstruation is a normal biological function of the female human body - like digestion, defecation, etc. To raise any of those subjects in this type of public forum is tacky and in the worse possible taste. I'm sure there are feminine and/or medical / psychological forums where the subject would be appropriate and would elicit the kind of "serious" response so craved, or it can be discussed privately - it's rather easy to create your own private chatroom on mIRC, and email the address to female and other sympathetic forum members. The most logical course would be to discuss it face to face with one's close friends and family members"
Jo....I do not need your suggestions where I may find information or discuss whatever I want or whenever I want, and this is not the first time you
write this kind of disagreable answer to me......any time you enter the forum is to criticize , you do not have enough creativity to put an interesting subject matter to talk about.......
If I did not answer Anne Marie about receiving her offer it is because I wanted THIS FORUM PEOPLE ´S COMMENTS ......I am able enough to look for information on Internet.
__it seems that there are not men no women any more....just human beings (human?)Learning to be a woman is a process and for me it is agreable to find real men that have developed his male personality.
__why talking about menstruation should be so bad and so "terrible"
I did this same question in other forum (a music forum too) and it was answer with a lot of dignity , seriousness and sense of humour too...
You are strange people after all......!(thank you linda-lakeside and Laurie for your previous valuable comments
see you......somewhere else........!!
__"It's one of those things that are so terribly inappropriate that you (figuratively) stare open-mouthed. Menstruation is a normal biological function of the female human body - like digestion, defecation, etc. To raise any of those subjects in this type of public forum is tacky and in the worse possible taste. I'm sure there are feminine and/or medical / psychological forums where the subject would be appropriate and would elicit the kind of "serious" response so craved, or it can be discussed privately - it's rather easy to create your own private chatroom on mIRC, and email the address to female and other sympathetic forum members. The most logical course would be to discuss it face to face with one's close friends and family members"
Jo....I do not need your suggestions where I may find information or discuss whatever I want or whenever I want, and this is not the first time you
write this kind of disagreable answer to me......any time you enter the forum is to criticize , you do not have enough creativity to put an interesting subject matter to talk about.......
If I did not answer Anne Marie about receiving her offer it is because I wanted THIS FORUM PEOPLE ´S COMMENTS ......I am able enough to look for information on Internet.
__it seems that there are not men no women any more....just human beings (human?)Learning to be a woman is a process and for me it is agreable to find real men that have developed his male personality.
__why talking about menstruation should be so bad and so "terrible"
I did this same question in other forum (a music forum too) and it was answer with a lot of dignity , seriousness and sense of humour too...
You are strange people after all......!(thank you linda-lakeside and Laurie for your previous valuable comments
see you......somewhere else........!!
Last edited by Sandra on Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:26 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Tchocolatl
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Sandra, if you allow me a comment... your previous post is no justice for the entire thread. The posts are reflecting a variety of differnts comments, includig, "dignity , seriousness and sense of humour too..."
In answer to your question, people are telling you what they are really feel, it is the most precious gift in my eyes. But, if you just want to have a certain range of "aceptable" answers when asking a quetion, it is up to you to mentioned it in due time. Because otherwise it look very strange.
to see a person asking a question and blaming or judging the answers as this and that, you should not think this about about that, you should not feel like this, you should not act like this etc, etc, etc... is not OK in my eyes. You took the risk to ask a question, then it is to your responsibility to assume ALL the answers.
To come back to the core of the subject, now :
Traditional cultures always had such rites de passages, the adults leading the not-child-anymore into their world.
Nowadays, traditions get dilued in the speed of the paste of life that tech&sci accelerate all the time. Boundaries of what is an adult - adolescence can go to 30 years old now - are more difficult to identify, also. The identity of a woman and a man is very different too from what their mother/father, grand-mother/grand-father was.
So this is a complex question, because what was laying under the question seems to be "what is the best rite of passage could I offer to my niece?
In 2005, the answer is anything but simple, in all the sides of the matter.
For this, I would keep it as simple as possible. My joke was serious, I really think that the best gift you can give her is and all the information and means she needs regarding her particular case to lead a happy active life.
In answer to your question, people are telling you what they are really feel, it is the most precious gift in my eyes. But, if you just want to have a certain range of "aceptable" answers when asking a quetion, it is up to you to mentioned it in due time. Because otherwise it look very strange.
to see a person asking a question and blaming or judging the answers as this and that, you should not think this about about that, you should not feel like this, you should not act like this etc, etc, etc... is not OK in my eyes. You took the risk to ask a question, then it is to your responsibility to assume ALL the answers.To come back to the core of the subject, now :
Traditional cultures always had such rites de passages, the adults leading the not-child-anymore into their world.
Nowadays, traditions get dilued in the speed of the paste of life that tech&sci accelerate all the time. Boundaries of what is an adult - adolescence can go to 30 years old now - are more difficult to identify, also. The identity of a woman and a man is very different too from what their mother/father, grand-mother/grand-father was.
So this is a complex question, because what was laying under the question seems to be "what is the best rite of passage could I offer to my niece?
In 2005, the answer is anything but simple, in all the sides of the matter.
For this, I would keep it as simple as possible. My joke was serious, I really think that the best gift you can give her is and all the information and means she needs regarding her particular case to lead a happy active life.
I'll defend to the death anyone's right to be as tasteless and inappropriate as their nature dictates - just as I'll defend to the death my right to comment.
I find your tastelessness offensive to my sensibilities so tough shit if my comments offend you. You should also learn to recognise the difference between distaste and anger - you might then be able to respond appropriately.
To paraphrase the chocolate person - if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
I find your tastelessness offensive to my sensibilities so tough shit if my comments offend you. You should also learn to recognise the difference between distaste and anger - you might then be able to respond appropriately.
To paraphrase the chocolate person - if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
"... to make a pale imitation of reality with twenty-six juggled letters"
"... all words are lies because they can only represent one of many levels of being"
Sober noises of morning in a marginal land.
"... all words are lies because they can only represent one of many levels of being"
Sober noises of morning in a marginal land.
Now you make me laugh Jo...... 
your words lack consistency.
and your comments about taste make me remember the great icelandic singer Bjork words about taste
"Good taste is the enemy of creativity"
Be well lady Jo....and think deep why you do reject your feminine side so much
your words lack consistency.and your comments about taste make me remember the great icelandic singer Bjork words about taste
"Good taste is the enemy of creativity"
Be well lady Jo....and think deep why you do reject your feminine side so much
Last edited by Sandra on Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:31 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Tchocolatl
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Don't you realise the more you keep flogging this dead horse the more you display your ignorance and belligerence and lack of understanding and logic?
As has been said by some nameless and unknown wag - I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
I'll leave you to carry on bickering amongst yourselves as you seem to find this pettiness of inordinate interest... one wonders what insecurities causes this when there are so many relevant and worthy causes on which to practice your clouded thinking.
As has been said by some nameless and unknown wag - I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
I'll leave you to carry on bickering amongst yourselves as you seem to find this pettiness of inordinate interest... one wonders what insecurities causes this when there are so many relevant and worthy causes on which to practice your clouded thinking.
"... to make a pale imitation of reality with twenty-six juggled letters"
"... all words are lies because they can only represent one of many levels of being"
Sober noises of morning in a marginal land.
"... all words are lies because they can only represent one of many levels of being"
Sober noises of morning in a marginal land.
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tom.d.stiller
- Posts: 1213
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:18 am
- Location: ... between the lines ...
- Contact:
A question is a question is a question.
One may consider it more or less relevant, one may consider it "tasteless", and say so - Sandra's original question was genuine, and has at first been treated as such.
A snide remark is a snide remark is a snide remark.
One may consider it okay to offer snide remarks, one may consider it tasteless, and say so - Anne-Marie's was a snide remark, and all talk about age groups won't make it a genuine offer of help.
"I find it so terribly sad that we've become so used to the nastiness in this forum that we" - don't even recognise it anymore.
Be it. When it's loud enough, we might mistake a shout for a whisper.
Maybe I shouldn't have come to this thread at all. And I'm going to leave it... But now that I'm here I'd better clarify my stance re "learning to be a (wo)man, learning to be human".
Rites de passage have always been there, and for a reason. And it's less simple today than it has been in the past. Everyone has to get used to the peculiarities of her / his body. "Learning to be a woman, a man" thus far makes perfect sense.
The traditional roles of "Man" and "Woman", however, have always been tainted by repression. Some feminist authors will have it that "Man" oppressed "Woman", I'd say that an inhuman social structure of repression made both men and women fall short. It's this very system that has to be overcome.
Women and men will have to learn to be human. The traditional roles are outdated. This is not the whole story, but in part this is responsible for the simple fact that rites de passage aren't as easy to find anymore.
A rose is a rose is a rose, and it usually comes with thorns. "You can't have one, you can't have none, you can't have one without the other."
Cheers
tom
One may consider it more or less relevant, one may consider it "tasteless", and say so - Sandra's original question was genuine, and has at first been treated as such.
A snide remark is a snide remark is a snide remark.
One may consider it okay to offer snide remarks, one may consider it tasteless, and say so - Anne-Marie's was a snide remark, and all talk about age groups won't make it a genuine offer of help.
"I find it so terribly sad that we've become so used to the nastiness in this forum that we" - don't even recognise it anymore.
Be it. When it's loud enough, we might mistake a shout for a whisper.
Maybe I shouldn't have come to this thread at all. And I'm going to leave it... But now that I'm here I'd better clarify my stance re "learning to be a (wo)man, learning to be human".
Rites de passage have always been there, and for a reason. And it's less simple today than it has been in the past. Everyone has to get used to the peculiarities of her / his body. "Learning to be a woman, a man" thus far makes perfect sense.
The traditional roles of "Man" and "Woman", however, have always been tainted by repression. Some feminist authors will have it that "Man" oppressed "Woman", I'd say that an inhuman social structure of repression made both men and women fall short. It's this very system that has to be overcome.
Women and men will have to learn to be human. The traditional roles are outdated. This is not the whole story, but in part this is responsible for the simple fact that rites de passage aren't as easy to find anymore.
A rose is a rose is a rose, and it usually comes with thorns. "You can't have one, you can't have none, you can't have one without the other."
Cheers
tom