Sadness and Joy in the News

[lizzytysh]

Hi Linda ~

The comment [as you probably heard, too] was to the effect of, "I think they're through the danger zone now. Ground control has to breathing a huge sigh of relief." I think it's the combination of the uncertainty [no matter how small] of both the repaired area, and the area that was left as is, in addition to the normal dangers of re-entry. The problem is that there's a point of no return. Limited fuel makes for limited landing opportunities, and the conditions of the vehicle itself are whatever they are, for whatever reason....and how they interact with the atmospheric conditions present will determine the success or failure. When it comes to space program ventures, I really don't take anything for granted. These are also very old vehicles.

Great point on the 'mess halls' . Exactly ~ and she wasn't the only woman on board. She also seems to do well in a Commander role.

~ Lizzy

[Tchocolatl]

Nan, this looks like paranoia. Watch out, maybe Russians will turn back to URSS and an army of body snatchers will invade the place.

More likely people don't like the bully imperialism. While I agree that some are just jalous and are hated them just because they would like to be THE bigger bully, even a biggest bully and control freak than USA can be. We are living in such a quiet world.

[Tchocolatl]

Hum... can
up there or can
down there, it would be better if big babies would not play with such big toys. Like wars, this is too serious a matter to let militaries take care of it.

They knew the submarine was damaged. They knew about the O-ring problem. But for money power and image.... (*@*# golden calf )

Only a personal opinion. Of course.

[linda_lakeside]

Tchoco,

Yes. Terrible tragedies have occured with great loss of life, and we don't know if these experiments should be continued.

Just an opinion, of course, but if it were not for the many explorers of ages previous, for instance those that took the first sea voyages and 'settled' North America and other regions (with tremendous loss of life), we would never have reached the scientific stage at which we now stand. I doubt very much that NASA 'let' the astronauts of Challenger or Columbia die 'for power and profit'.

I believe it's human nature to want to explore the unknown, and in the exploration process, new advances are made (in medicine, technology, scientific theory, etc.). These advances are not only perpetrated by the governments, but the 'explorers' themselves. They (astronauts - explorers of this age) want to do what they do. Their careers are dreams come true for them. I respect their desire to take whatever chances are necessary to advance the knowledge of the human race. Much has come of the space program and I think the advances will continue to be made. I think there is a difference between exploring the unknown and making missiles of destruction.

However, we, as humans, want to know what's 'on the other side', and I have respect for those with the guts to go and find out.

Linda.

[Tchocolatl]

Certainly we need bold explorers who take risks in any fields. Death is not such a terrible thing as it is part of life and we will all die some day or another. I don't have any problem with this when it is an accident or from natural causes. I mean, it is sad, but it is life. You know what I mean.

Otherwise... I'm not so hot with it.

In 1986 the firm of ingeneers advised the NASA to postbone the departure of the shuffle on that day because the temperature was much too cold and they were aware of the problem that may occure with the O-rings, but because it was postboned twice and everybody has an image (of power (and money)) to keep going...

If they cared more for the human lifes than their image they would have save both.

Anyway this time, they made it, but too much details were not fixed again. When will they learned? I, in my huge naivety, did think that this time, nothing of the sort would occured.

[linda_lakeside]

Yes. I agree that I, too, was surprised that so many things seemed to go wrong and, to me at least, the re-entry seemed risky. But all exploration is. However, you're right, that on the surface it appears that too many delays could make them look bad, thereby forcing NASA (or the powers that be) to take unnecessary risks. But, it's far easier to scrub a mission than to have another disaster on their hands.

However, with so much at stake, the entire NASA mission, etc. I doubt that the risks were 'unreasonable' - as there is never a guarnatee of success. With that said, I breathed a sigh of relief when they touched down (having watched both the Challenger and Columbia live on TV).

Perhaps this close call, will wake them to the fact that people are not behind failure in the NASA mission. Lives and yes, money, enormous amounts of money, are at stake. Hopefully, now, they know enough to continue or not, depending on the data gathered. After all the money that's been spent, it would be very hard for them to just stop and declare failure. But if they must - then they must.

In this case, I like to think that the Canadarm, helped to save the day. There is so much more to learn. Too bad science must climb into bed with politics (right beside everyone else).

Linda.

[Tchocolatl]

Yep! Canadarm again, like I already said, it is enough: they should do their job properly, the Canadian arm could not always pick up their mess after them.

A lot amount of money? Money is nothing. Money does not really exist. Money is a concept we use and embodied in some matter of some sort and we give its value to both the matter and the concept.

If tomorrow the human race will end, in the silence and the wind, what will worth "money"?

Nothing.

Life is a risky business at all points, this was not my point. Have a nice day.

[Tchocolatl]

Me again...

Thanks G_d, Linda, Julie Payette was not part of the mission in 1986. But there was this woman, teacher, Christa McAuliffe and the first civilian to take part of a space trip. That accident should never have happened for a matter of not wanted to report a departure. Or for any "money" consideration.

But I think they have learned now. I hope.

I just heard that NASA is sending another engine around Mars planet these days (the departure is postbone due to the weather ). I wonder if the colonization of Mars is possible, at some point in a future, near of far.

[lizzytysh]

The commentary I've heard recently is that Mars is much more easily inhabitable than the moon, that the gravity there is very similar to that of Earth. There's something about a mission that would include humans being there for three years.

[Kush]

Money is always a HUGE consideration in any scientific venture. Almost always you have to work within tight budgetary constraints. Plus the NASA engineers and scientists want to be (and deserve to be) very well-paid for their efforts and their unique skills which were honed from years of experience and dedication. As Leonard Cohen once said "I dont want to work for pay, but I want to be paid for my work."
Moreover, any scientific venture is fraught with risks, you never know if it will work coz' nobody has ever tried it before. You take all precautions that you can think of and hope you didnt overlook anything.

[Tchocolatl]

Dealing with the unknown is a thing.

Being careless with know problems is another.

P.S. :

Nobody will persuade me that we can not choose between two attitudes. (Putting the blame on others (what ever it is, the neighbour, the politicans, the etc.) to avoid our personnal responsibility)

Nobody will persuade me that we have to dump nuclear garbage in the ocean, to let industries pollute at a point they are destroying the environment just because we have to comply to some social and econcomical laws that we, ourselves, are creating.

Nobody will persuade me that the individual power is not as thin and powerful and beautiful as the power of the butterfly's wings.

Have a nice day

[lizzytysh]

Nobody will persuade me that the individual power is not as thin and powerful and beautiful as the power of the butterfly's wings.

What an INCREDIBLE quote! Is that a paraphrase of someone else's or is it your own, Tchocolatl?

[Tchocolatl]

Well. If you ask if I created the sentence since the capital to the dot, the answer is yes. But you know what they say about originality : it is just a capacity to arrange old known forms in a new unknown way.

So I arranged the old idea of the Butterfly effect, plus a metaphor about the butterfly effect used in a certain management theory plus my personnal opinion about people. (phew) (never thought I have done all this while writing it )

[Steven]

Tchocolatl,

I, also, took notice of the sentence; it is superb.

[lizzytysh]

So I arranged the old idea of the Butterfly effect, plus a metaphor about the butterfly effect used in a certain management theory plus my personnal opinion about people. (phew) (never thought I have done all this while writing it )

Well, I'm glad you chose to do it the way you did, rather than this way .

So exquisitely true .

~ Lizzy