.poetic pearls
I would certainly be one of the do cares, as I know the quality of Witty Owl's postings from past experience, here as well as elsewhere. I also, of course, feel that Susanne's postings should be as Susanne wishes them to be. Ironically, you [Susanne] and you [Witty Owl] concur on the discussability of religion, at least in this context. Sure hope to read many postings from each of you as we keep going .
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Sore Loser
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tom.d.stiller
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To get back to the original intention of this thread:
I was on an overcrowded subway train this morning, when suddenly a line from an old song came to my mind:
I was on an overcrowded subway train this morning, when suddenly a line from an old song came to my mind:
I suppose that Bob Dylan (Outlaw Blues) played with this old song when he wrote:Ain't it hard to stumble when you got no place to fall?
In this whole wide world I got no place at all.
I'm a stranger here, I'm a stranger everywhere.
I could go home, honey, but I'm a stranger there.
TomAin't it hard to stumble
And land in some funny lagoon?
Ain't it hard to stumble
And land in some muddy lagoon?
Especially when it's nine below zero
And three o'clock in the afternoon.
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George.Wright
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Poetic pearls
Fellow posters, there is a distinct hazard in making religious or 'god' references when posting, for these topics can be divisive as we have seen here. And as we have seen through the appalling record of our centuries of history. I have been down this road at the Sony site and so I do have experience of the consequences of such discussions. 
I do have strong views on this and it is difficult for me to not respond. Hence I REQUESTED and expressed preference for dialogue that is closer to the topic presented. I would not or could not dictate or censor here so why does one assume so? The internet is awash with smart mouthed nay sayers at chatrooms and discussion boards. This site seems to have a greater proportion of people who communicate with consideration and heart. I find this appealing. I do not wish to be lured into such topics as religion that lead to pointless and fruitless arguement.
I do have a keen interest in verse writing and I anticipated that this topic could be a welcome change from the intensity of the war discussions.
Thanks Tom for getting the topic back on track. What is the source of the 'old' song that you allude was a reference for Dylan's 'Outlaw Blues'? What particular meaning do they hold for you?
Regards,
I do have strong views on this and it is difficult for me to not respond. Hence I REQUESTED and expressed preference for dialogue that is closer to the topic presented. I would not or could not dictate or censor here so why does one assume so? The internet is awash with smart mouthed nay sayers at chatrooms and discussion boards. This site seems to have a greater proportion of people who communicate with consideration and heart. I find this appealing. I do not wish to be lured into such topics as religion that lead to pointless and fruitless arguement. I do have a keen interest in verse writing and I anticipated that this topic could be a welcome change from the intensity of the war discussions.
Thanks Tom for getting the topic back on track.
What is the source of the 'old' song that you allude was a reference for Dylan's 'Outlaw Blues'? What particular meaning do they hold for you? Regards,
poetic pearls
Taking oneself too seriously is a problem and I take your point. It is an indicator of self importance and this can undermine one's personal power. However, taking one's communication seriously is another matter and it seems to me that most members here do take their postings seriously. And of course this does not preclude humour. I have been familiar with David's postings from here and at the Sony site and I always took delight in his remarks. I am glad that he took the process seriously and I lament his leaving just as I was entering this site. 
I have personal experience from other sites at how difficult it can be to maintain real communication when you are up against individuals whose main game is cutting down anyone whenever and wherever they can. This kind of nasty or banal entertainment can leave one with no other option but to withdraw. I have been away from these websites for an extended period and I am once again testing the waters.
David if you read this; please come back!?
Regards,
I have personal experience from other sites at how difficult it can be to maintain real communication when you are up against individuals whose main game is cutting down anyone whenever and wherever they can. This kind of nasty or banal entertainment can leave one with no other option but to withdraw. I have been away from these websites for an extended period and I am once again testing the waters. David if you read this; please come back!?
Regards,
I'm not aware of David posting on the Sony site. If you're thinking of the same one I am from way back, it's a different one, very different in fact. If not, then I've missed out on some more great postings! Both Davids [in my experience] were/are great....each in their own way.
Yes, please come back, David.
Yes, please come back, David.
poetic pearls
Well, if the 2 Davids are very different people then please forgive my errant assumption. 
Cheers,
Cheers,
! Same message holds true.....please come back.-
tom.d.stiller
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Witty Owl,
the source?
Well I was ridin' that overcrowded subway train
when a colleague said to me "Hey Tom
you could drop dead here and nobody realized
'cos there simpy ain't no space left to fall."
then the line from the old song
came back into my mind
and i did a google search to find out.
But there were only a few references to the song, and nothing was said about who recorded it when, and how my subconscious could've gained knowledge. I posted it, though, because I like the casual way of expressing utter despair in a few unpresumptuous words you can find in many old blues titles. (And it is not without allusions to the Bible as well: "stranger in a strange land" comes to my mind etc...)
And now let me join in the chorus,
Yes and David, David, David, David, David, David, David come back to us...
Tom
the source?
Well I was ridin' that overcrowded subway train
when a colleague said to me "Hey Tom
you could drop dead here and nobody realized
'cos there simpy ain't no space left to fall."
then the line from the old song
came back into my mind
and i did a google search to find out.
But there were only a few references to the song, and nothing was said about who recorded it when, and how my subconscious could've gained knowledge. I posted it, though, because I like the casual way of expressing utter despair in a few unpresumptuous words you can find in many old blues titles. (And it is not without allusions to the Bible as well: "stranger in a strange land" comes to my mind etc...)
And now let me join in the chorus,
Yes and David, David, David, David, David, David, David come back to us...
Tom
Re: Poetic pearls
Did you read my last post at page one?witty_owl wrote: I have been down this road at the Sony site and so I do have experience of the consequences of such discussions.
I do not wish to be lured into such topics as religion that lead to pointless and fruitless arguement.
I'm tired of repeating it but I can't stand to be misunderstood!
I once and for all would like to make clear that I never intended to start a debate about religion.
I only interpreted those lines, and I explained why I chose them - as this was the purpose and the topic of this thread. Full stop.
You were the one who started that argument and who attacked me.
I never intended to discuss whether the message of those lines is right or wrong - as this is not the aim of an interpretation (and, moreover, isn't possible at all).
I didn't want to provoke you. I'm not in the slightest interested in your religious views, and I don't wish to talk about mine.
I intended this to be solely an objective literary discussion.
But obviously you are not able to differentiate between these two things.
Or you don't want to.
- Susanne
Hi Susanne ~
With what Witty Owl said in general, regarding topics that will predictably go nowhere, I agree. With what he said to you, from what you've said here ~ about as forthrightly and honestly and emphatically as anyone could ~ it does appear that the wrong track was taken.
I feel you made your point very well. I can't stand to be misunderstood either, and your response really captured how I have sometimes felt when trying to clarify something that just won't seem to get cleared up. My style hasn't been the same as what you used, but that's the only thing that hasn't. Your style was very effective in your last-ditch effort for clarification. The only thing I wish you could have left off was your last two lines. They're just so inflammatory and kinda throws the red flag back into the ring, and threw the personal back into what you had just so effectively objectified.
I agree with what you've said regarding one's own interpretation of things will by necessity include how one's own interpretation of things went, regardless of topics.
~ Elizabeth
With what Witty Owl said in general, regarding topics that will predictably go nowhere, I agree. With what he said to you, from what you've said here ~ about as forthrightly and honestly and emphatically as anyone could ~ it does appear that the wrong track was taken.
I feel you made your point very well. I can't stand to be misunderstood either, and your response really captured how I have sometimes felt when trying to clarify something that just won't seem to get cleared up. My style hasn't been the same as what you used, but that's the only thing that hasn't. Your style was very effective in your last-ditch effort for clarification. The only thing I wish you could have left off was your last two lines. They're just so inflammatory and kinda throws the red flag back into the ring, and threw the personal back into what you had just so effectively objectified.
I agree with what you've said regarding one's own interpretation of things will by necessity include how one's own interpretation of things went, regardless of topics.
~ Elizabeth
DON'T SEEK YOURSELF OUTSIDE!
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new
landscapes but in having new eyes. --Marcel Proust
Why is everyone here so happy except me?"
"Because they have learned to see goodness and beauty everywhere," said the
Master.
"Why don't I see goodness and beauty everywhere?"
"Because you cannot see outside of you what you fail to see inside."
Anthony de Mello, SJ
Hi Witty and all.
Well, it is not easy to quote just a phrase or passage that has inspired me, because I am in that strange period of life (i think it will be for my lifetime, for sure, and EEHI!
it is good!) in which I try to be opened to whatever it happens to grow and change my point of view, better, to riarrange.
I have experimented so many times the closing of God, or Light, or Tao or Strenght or whatever you call that Big Light ( LOVE ) talking to me and embrass and caress me with books, and movies, and faces (such an immensity without words) and so on.
It is inside of us. How wonderful I am!
Another thing: my opinion is that we simply cannot push God out of our life, cause simply we move and we act in His force. And by his force. Even if we don't know. That's my dayly verification.
Bye
landscapes but in having new eyes. --Marcel Proust
Why is everyone here so happy except me?"
"Because they have learned to see goodness and beauty everywhere," said the
Master.
"Why don't I see goodness and beauty everywhere?"
"Because you cannot see outside of you what you fail to see inside."
Anthony de Mello, SJ
Hi Witty and all.
Well, it is not easy to quote just a phrase or passage that has inspired me, because I am in that strange period of life (i think it will be for my lifetime, for sure, and EEHI!
it is good!) in which I try to be opened to whatever it happens to grow and change my point of view, better, to riarrange.I have experimented so many times the closing of God, or Light, or Tao or Strenght or whatever you call that Big Light ( LOVE ) talking to me and embrass and caress me with books, and movies, and faces (such an immensity without words) and so on.
It is inside of us. How wonderful I am!
Another thing: my opinion is that we simply cannot push God out of our life, cause simply we move and we act in His force. And by his force. Even if we don't know. That's my dayly verification.
Bye
poetic pearls
halfCrazy first posted, "seeking divinity not in gods and idols created by man himself but in nature and it's mystery".
There we have it. Did you consider that the monotheistic notion of god is also "created by man himself". This is the core of the problem that has caused you to become increasingly defensive and hostile with each subsequent posting. Firstly you criticised the manner of my expression and at the last posting you were making personal attacks on the assumption that I was attacking you personally. That was not my intention or my action and if you re-read carefully with an impassive eye you can see that I was challenging ideas. If you have misunderstood my intention then I apologise for the inadequate clarity of communication.
Nature itself is evidence enough for me to see that there is some force driving or creating in the universe. Ground of being, great spirit or simply NATURE are words we can use to allude to this energy. The word"god" is fraught with problems of misinterpretation and conflict as we have seen at this thread in such a short period of time.
Now you see I am reavealing my ideas on spirituality which I wished to avoid but I hope it does clarify some misunderstanding of my intent with what I have posted.
In addition I do not feel provoked nor do I misunderstand your postings. Whether you intended to or not you did initiate a discussion on god by taking a defensive stance on the interpretation of those lyrics. Please do not take it as a personal slight for I have been critical of the western approach to god/religion/spirituallity for most of my life. The critique is not aimed at you. Okay.
Be well and be at ease. 
Regards,
There we have it. Did you consider that the monotheistic notion of god is also "created by man himself". This is the core of the problem that has caused you to become increasingly defensive and hostile with each subsequent posting. Firstly you criticised the manner of my expression and at the last posting you were making personal attacks on the assumption that I was attacking you personally. That was not my intention or my action and if you re-read carefully with an impassive eye you can see that I was challenging ideas. If you have misunderstood my intention then I apologise for the inadequate clarity of communication.
Nature itself is evidence enough for me to see that there is some force driving or creating in the universe. Ground of being, great spirit or simply NATURE are words we can use to allude to this energy. The word"god" is fraught with problems of misinterpretation and conflict as we have seen at this thread in such a short period of time.
Now you see I am reavealing my ideas on spirituality which I wished to avoid but I hope it does clarify some misunderstanding of my intent with what I have posted.
In addition I do not feel provoked nor do I misunderstand your postings. Whether you intended to or not you did initiate a discussion on god by taking a defensive stance on the interpretation of those lyrics. Please do not take it as a personal slight for I have been critical of the western approach to god/religion/spirituallity for most of my life. The critique is not aimed at you. Okay.
Be well and be at ease. Regards,