melancholic...

linmag · Post by **linmag** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 7:03 pm

I certainly hadn't heard the manic bit before, though it would not surprise me. I read that bit about the worry cells dying off as you grow older too, though I suspect that in Leonard's case they just finally succumbed to all the things he has been blasting them with over the years. He himself mentioned wine and women, chemicals whether prescribed or otherwise, and meditation - something was bound to work in the end.

The theory of the worry cells dying off is very attractive, and I would love to be able to look forward to a blissful old age. But it can't be true, or why are there so many miserable old b.......s around?

Linda · Post by **Linda** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 10:24 pm

Most likely finally realizing he wasn't going to find the help in all that stuff helped the most. He found a new source of help within himself that he never knew he had and it seems to me that his religion has helped him a lot.

Dem · Post by **Dem** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 10:59 pm

What is his religion?

Dem · Post by **Dem** » Mon Jul 01, 2002 11:18 pm

To linmag:

"As he matured,Cohen began to display the characteristics of manic-depressiveness.These symptoms usually first appear around the age of eighteen or nineteen;cyclic and recurrent shifts from manic creativity,sociability ans sexual activity on one hand,and intense lassitude,withdrawal and anxiety on the other.In addition, victims tend to be obssesive and extremely organized.Cohen was, and is,absorbed by his writing and music, and is unusually tidy and concerned with detail.His homes have all been spotless ans almost bare in their furnishings;his notebooks are all ordered by year, and his work habits reflect his concern with discipline and precision."

Ira Nadel "Various Positions" pg.49-50 in my edition.

And for the copy,
Dem

PS)If "Please Don't Pass Me By" as it is heard in the album: "Leonard Cohen:Live Songs" isn't a song written by a manic-depressive person then what it is?

Dem

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 1:15 am

yeah Dem....in that song manic-depressive and perhaps on something else too....

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 1:17 am

Dem...Thank you for that information. You can see Leonard in each line as you read it.

Lizzytysh

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 1:32 am

Dem

I've always perceived Please Don't Pass Me By as having been written from a perspective of intense compassion [as opposed to manic-depression]. When he pleads, "Don't be the person that you came with...." etc. and references his audience as "sitting there, deep in your velvet seats, thinking 'it'll never happen to me' [i.e. homelessness/psychosis?]," I feel he's making a "universal" plea for them to live their lives in a state of compassion for the less fortunate, as well. I'm not saying he couldn't, perhaps, relate moreso than others, but I felt the thrust of the song was that he himself was deeply moved by what he saw on the streets of New York.

Lizzytysh

Linda · Post by **Linda** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 1:53 am

Isn't he Jewish, and also studying Zen Buddism on Mt Baldy.

Dem · Post by **Dem** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:14 am

To Lizzytysh:

Yes, all these things are also there in the song.
But still is a manic-depressive song.
And this is not critisicm.
It is just a statement.

Dem

"Once I was walking along in a snowstorm in New york and I came up very quickly behind a man who had a sign stuck to the back of his coat.
The sign said

Please don't pass me by
I've been blind totally,
But you have eyes and you can see,
Please don't pass me by.

But when I looked at the man's face I saw that he wasn't really blind, at least not physically, and so I caught up with him at the next corner and asked him why he had that sign. He said to me, "Man, do you think I'm talking about my eyes?" so i wrote this song.

Leonard Cohen in a concert in Frankfurt, Germany 1972

Marianne Pettersson · Post by **Marianne Pettersson** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:29 am

I think that we should leave Leonard Cohens healt and feelings, that is very private for him He is giving his music, lyrics,poetry,etc to those who likes it (I do). Is it not the music we are meant to talk about ,not that lovely man . Maybe I'm wrong I dont think so he is just a man...........

love,Marianne[/i]

linmag · Post by **linmag** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:16 am

Thanks for all the background to 'Please don't Pass me by', Dem. I had always thought there might be more to it than simply physical blindness, and it was good to have that confirmed. The manic-depressive description certainly seems to fit, doesn't it. I don't know whether to be more sad that Leonard had to go through all that in order to produce his beautiful work, or glad that something so worthwhile came of it.

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 3:34 am

Dem wrote:What is his religion?

Having read a little bit about both, I have sometimes thought that deep inside LC's religious beliefs is not too dissimilar to Einstein's thoughts on God and religion which is not in any personal God or religion but just an amazement and wonder at the harmony of the universe.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:48 am

Dem

I didn't take it to be a criticism, but simply your strong opinion. It's not as obvious to me as it is to you and Linda that his explanation of what prompted the song makes it a manic-depressive one. Please expound on that aspect.

Yes, and what I quoted also has to do with people "leaving" the words of the song "as" a new person, i.e. altering their mentality period. Various mutilations of the human form can be the hunchbacks and the other physical infirmities/disabilities. However, it can be the mental/emotional ones as well.

I see the song as insights into many of these areas; however, why does what you've quoted make it a "manic-depressive" song? Or a song written by a "manic-depressive"?

How about Avalanche?

Lizzytysh

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 4:52 am

Hi Marianne....I understand what you're saying and what you mean. It seems, however, that Leonard's work is inextricably intertwined with who he is, moreso than many [perhaps most] other artists. Addressing one aspect often leads to addressing the other...they tend to merge. I hope that no one means to be offensive or invasive with Leonard and his life, when they do it.

Lizzytysh

Dem · Post by **Dem** » Tue Jul 02, 2002 2:19 pm

To lizzytysh: The background information of this song has nothing to do with "manic-depressiveness".
I call this song that because that is the feeling I have about it from what I hear.
That's all.

To Marianne: I hope you understand that this talk is not gossip.
And especially about Cohen who is so autobiographical in his work.

As Antre Breton said "Artist must live in a tower made of glass".

To Kush: Yes, that is what I also think about his religious beliefs.

Dem
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