Linda: Maybe "depressing" is too strong a term. Perhaps "very serious", "lefeless" and "somwhat down" might be more appropriate terms to describe a substantial amount of his music. His slow poetry readings also sound as if they are being read by someone who is not quite awake, but is in a dream like state....slow, measured, mecahinal and hypnotised.
It may not make people depressed, but I certainly would not let an already depressed person listen to his music, just in case it might push them over the edge. Like, it wouldn't be music that should be listened to as part of any progarmme aimed at alleviating depression.
Why do Cohen fans seem to suffer from depression?
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Depression Free with LC
Cheering up with Leonard
Dear Rocks, I hope you don't mind my using an affectionate nickname. Well, I disagree, and I speak from personal experience. I have just completed a twelve step program for the seriously depressed, and all of the homework was listening to Leonard's music, learning to play it on the guitar and sing it, transcribing the words and memorizing them and going out into the public schools to counsel youngsters. We had special music programs that we listened to all night. I am proud to say I have now graduated to the maintenance program and only have to read his poetry. You can recognize graduates of the program by the secret sign, the secret handshake and our hairstyles, cut just like Leonard's. If you would like to know how to join the group, let me know and I will send you a private message.
Hi Kush,
I agree with what you're saying, just from a different use of the term. When someone talks about his songs being depressing, I hear that as meaning you start out in a good mood, but the impact of his songs on you causes you to end up feeling depressed, hence the songs themselves are depressing.
Leonard has made it abundantly clear that he has spent many months of his life feeling depressed, and his songs have a clear sense of that. However, that doesn't make the songs themselves depressing.
~Lizzytysh
I agree with what you're saying, just from a different use of the term. When someone talks about his songs being depressing, I hear that as meaning you start out in a good mood, but the impact of his songs on you causes you to end up feeling depressed, hence the songs themselves are depressing.
Leonard has made it abundantly clear that he has spent many months of his life feeling depressed, and his songs have a clear sense of that. However, that doesn't make the songs themselves depressing.
~Lizzytysh
Ah, okay, I see what you're saying....however, in the sense that many people make that comment, their response is that they stop listening and don't think. It's used as a dismissive term for their dismissive action. You stick with it and do think and feel the issues. So, in the sense that you're saying it, you're right. For me, his songs cause me to think about what's being said about the issues; however, through that thinking and processing of them, I also find delivery from the depression surrounding them ~ in my own life and in general.
~Lizzytysh
~Lizzytysh
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rocksoff
Depession free with LC:
I'm glad to see that it woked for you. But this is not sufficient evidence that it works for most people who are depressed. I mean to say, what about all you programme peers. Did it work for all of them. Has there been any controlled studies on this phenomenon. It seems a bit weird that depressing music would help people suffering from depression....unless their level of depression was only at a moderate level to begin with. if that was the case, then moderate depressives would on hearing very depressing music actually be lifted by what they heard, realising that WOW..now that's real depressio, BIG TIME. Thus comparing their depression to that felt by the music would have an uplifting effect. Also, how can you know that it was LC's music that had the postive effet on you? It might in fact have been other elements in the programme package that had the major effects? Still, if you believe it, then OK for you. But it could be a dangerous thing to recommend it to others who may be depressed or suicidal, and I would advise you against doing that. Like, there's no way that anyone should recommend Dylan's song, Love Sick ("I'm walkin the streets that are dead" lyric) to someone who is clearly depressed, as a way of trying to cheer them up. Similarly, Lenny's beatiful -but depressing sounding- voice - should not be recommended to cheer up people.
I'm glad to see that it woked for you. But this is not sufficient evidence that it works for most people who are depressed. I mean to say, what about all you programme peers. Did it work for all of them. Has there been any controlled studies on this phenomenon. It seems a bit weird that depressing music would help people suffering from depression....unless their level of depression was only at a moderate level to begin with. if that was the case, then moderate depressives would on hearing very depressing music actually be lifted by what they heard, realising that WOW..now that's real depressio, BIG TIME. Thus comparing their depression to that felt by the music would have an uplifting effect. Also, how can you know that it was LC's music that had the postive effet on you? It might in fact have been other elements in the programme package that had the major effects? Still, if you believe it, then OK for you. But it could be a dangerous thing to recommend it to others who may be depressed or suicidal, and I would advise you against doing that. Like, there's no way that anyone should recommend Dylan's song, Love Sick ("I'm walkin the streets that are dead" lyric) to someone who is clearly depressed, as a way of trying to cheer them up. Similarly, Lenny's beatiful -but depressing sounding- voice - should not be recommended to cheer up people.
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Depression Free with LC
Twelve Step Program
Dear Rocky, As our relationship is growing, I feel more and more affectionate, thus it's Rocky now. I forgot to mention that we listened to our LC in a sensory deprivation chamber so that we could concentrate on the cheering messages. As LC once said, more or less, people who are depressed listen to my music and feel there is someone who understands, and we all know how nice that is. Also, we used Tonight Will Be Fine as our bedtime prayer, thus ending the day on a positive note.
Dear DFLC,
As 12-Step programs go, I can't imagine a more effective one. I think yours should be included in all local listings, with perhaps a press release to accompany its initial inclusion.
It sounds like your own recovery is going exceedingly well and speaks well of the program. You may well have been selected for its poster child, were it not for the anonymity of the programs themselves.
~Lizzytysh
As 12-Step programs go, I can't imagine a more effective one. I think yours should be included in all local listings, with perhaps a press release to accompany its initial inclusion.
It sounds like your own recovery is going exceedingly well and speaks well of the program. You may well have been selected for its poster child, were it not for the anonymity of the programs themselves.
~Lizzytysh
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rocksoff
Lizzie and DRLC:
I would strongly urge you to make it obligitory to anyone signing up to also sign a "no claims"., clause, as some surviving relatives may want to sue the pants off you and LC, in the very likely event of increased suicidal ideation, intent, and possible attempts. User beware of using the sounds emanating from LC as "therapy" for depression. This could end up in the courts. if you think consumers have a case against mcdonals for making them fat, think what they could do in court to someone whom LC music, lyrics psychologically or bodily harms. Ambulance chasers, hello.
I would strongly urge you to make it obligitory to anyone signing up to also sign a "no claims"., clause, as some surviving relatives may want to sue the pants off you and LC, in the very likely event of increased suicidal ideation, intent, and possible attempts. User beware of using the sounds emanating from LC as "therapy" for depression. This could end up in the courts. if you think consumers have a case against mcdonals for making them fat, think what they could do in court to someone whom LC music, lyrics psychologically or bodily harms. Ambulance chasers, hello.
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rocksoff
And please, Lizzie and DPLC, whatever you do, don't play "If it be your will", or "death of a ladies man". It could be insatntly fatal. or at least very dangerous indeed. I think you are both crazy to think that his music has healing powers for depression. Perhaps you are both slightly elated, and really bi-polar? If so, i ould suggest that you re-consider your recommendations very carefully, as there are bound to be some very vulnerable people on this board who may go out and do what you say. Do wither of you think you could accept responsibility for your influence in this regard. Although you both may mean well, I really think you have gone too far.
R,
So, you really think there are people on this forum who aren't already listening to Leonard, living the reckless life, walking on the edge, taking their chances? I thought we'd have to at least leave this forum to find them. Hmmm, this may be easier than I'd originally thought.
Of course, suicide is not a topic for kidding and lightness....and for those who have taken that tragic and final step, Leonard's music has been neither able to save them, nor harm them. I do believe, however, that it has assisted them in holding on as long as they were able. I have no proof of this. It's only what I believe.
~Lizzytysh
So, you really think there are people on this forum who aren't already listening to Leonard, living the reckless life, walking on the edge, taking their chances? I thought we'd have to at least leave this forum to find them. Hmmm, this may be easier than I'd originally thought.
Of course, suicide is not a topic for kidding and lightness....and for those who have taken that tragic and final step, Leonard's music has been neither able to save them, nor harm them. I do believe, however, that it has assisted them in holding on as long as they were able. I have no proof of this. It's only what I believe.
~Lizzytysh
Would LC's music seem depressing (to those who think it is) if you had never known of his battle with depression? I had listened to his music for quite some time before I knew that, and I somewhere read the remark about selling razor blades with his songs. My reaction was What?? All I know is if I am sitting in my room all depressed send LC in to sing one of his songs instead of some cheerful idiot telling me "it can't be that bad cheer up and continue to tell me how wonderful their life is" I would rather have someone saying " yes life sucks sometimes but hang in there it is going to get better, I know how you feel". Cheerful people are all idiots they don't know what real life is all about! only kidding!
Great sense of humor guys! laughter is good medicine. Naval gazing
(another thread)
Great sense of humor guys! laughter is good medicine. Naval gazing
(another thread)Linda
Linda,
Even though I have been listening to Leonard for 30 years, it wasn't until this year that I heard the razor blade comment, and I was equally surprized for the same reasons you've listed. My comment aloud when I read it was, "Razor blades??? You gotta be kidding me!" As you've also indicated, identification and empathy are far more effective than denial, particularly when it's someone outside of yourself doing your denying/denial for you!
I think you've made a particularly good point as far as people reading depression/depressing into his songs based on knowledge of his private life.
Gazing away....
~Lizzytysh
Even though I have been listening to Leonard for 30 years, it wasn't until this year that I heard the razor blade comment, and I was equally surprized for the same reasons you've listed. My comment aloud when I read it was, "Razor blades??? You gotta be kidding me!" As you've also indicated, identification and empathy are far more effective than denial, particularly when it's someone outside of yourself doing your denying/denial for you!
I think you've made a particularly good point as far as people reading depression/depressing into his songs based on knowledge of his private life.
Gazing away....
~Lizzytysh
Ok ..let me put it this way...I always thought I liked LCs music becoz' I liked dark, depressing and introspective music (I like lighter stuff too)!! But that's me...I can't speak for others, of course.
And also, I may be mistaken on this but I think the "razor blade/music to slit your wrists by" comment was made after hearing Dress Rehearsal Rag. If one hears that song then that comment makes perfect sense and is even a little humorous becoz' that song is about a man contemplating suicide.
He uses the word 'razor' twice in the song most tellingly here....
Now if you can manage to get
your trembling fingers to behave,
why don't you try unwrapping
a stainless steel razor blade?
And also, I may be mistaken on this but I think the "razor blade/music to slit your wrists by" comment was made after hearing Dress Rehearsal Rag. If one hears that song then that comment makes perfect sense and is even a little humorous becoz' that song is about a man contemplating suicide.
He uses the word 'razor' twice in the song most tellingly here....
Now if you can manage to get
your trembling fingers to behave,
why don't you try unwrapping
a stainless steel razor blade?
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Irene Teresa
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:03 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
- Contact:
I can see you are having some fun here and I dont mean to sound depressing but in all seriousness it does depend on whose is listening!! 
we are all different....For instance LC really does not sound slow to me- he is at my pace, fast things and music makes me feel ill.For some it leads them to dance. So be it.
My son suffers with a serious mental illness and depression can be part of it - we also both work in the mental health fields and quite honesty imho I have found that so called 'depressing' music is better for a depressed person. By this I mean music in LC level, something melodious and gentle with meaning and also addressing some challenges of life but not overtly negative like death metal etc....No that would not be good. Maybe a few old LC olders songs may not be approriate for some people I agree when feeling very downn, but most are fine.
If one try to get them to listen to happy upbeat smily pop tunes they go really angry because it makes them feel inadeqaute and it grates on their nerves. I have seen it over and over.....and slower LC type songs are better as they can actually relate and inrelating feel better about where they are at. Give them a reference point.
Sorry for sounding so serious in the midst of fun , by hey go into a menatl ward and really it aint so funny that level of suffering...
we are all different....For instance LC really does not sound slow to me- he is at my pace, fast things and music makes me feel ill.For some it leads them to dance. So be it.My son suffers with a serious mental illness and depression can be part of it - we also both work in the mental health fields and quite honesty imho I have found that so called 'depressing' music is better for a depressed person. By this I mean music in LC level, something melodious and gentle with meaning and also addressing some challenges of life but not overtly negative like death metal etc....No that would not be good. Maybe a few old LC olders songs may not be approriate for some people I agree when feeling very downn, but most are fine.
If one try to get them to listen to happy upbeat smily pop tunes they go really angry because it makes them feel inadeqaute and it grates on their nerves. I have seen it over and over.....and slower LC type songs are better as they can actually relate and inrelating feel better about where they are at. Give them a reference point.
Sorry for sounding so serious in the midst of fun , by hey go into a menatl ward and really it aint so funny that level of suffering...