leonardcohenforum.com

Just saw on oeticket.com and konzerthaus.at that the concert in Vienna is almost sold out, just a handful of seats left.

Paul Zagreb wrote: I do fear, Wendy, that many of us are going to need both debt counselling and some kind of withdrawal therapy after this is over!!

I agree, I also had one 4th row ticket for Vienna in my basket, fortunately my rationale voice shouted loudly 'that's insane' and I gave it up.
IMHO the prices are going overboard and beyond the reach of most longtime fans.

richardrj wrote:As I wrote above, the ticket price is first of all a function of the artist's fee. And don't forget the Konzerthaus is one of the smallest venues on the tour so they need to charge more than larger venues would in order to recoup that fee.

Manchester Opera House = 1,920 capacity
My second row LC ticket = £75

Vienna Konzerthaus = 1,840 capacity
My sixth row LC ticket = £160

The difference in capacity between the two venues is 4.3%, the difference is ticket price is 113%!

Claiming that the capacity is the reason for the high price looks something of a fallacy when bearing this in mind. I suspect it's just down to what the different promoters in the different countries/regions the tour passes through think they can get away with.

All eight non-festival venues LC is confirmed playing (or played) in the UK in 2008 have identical prices, £50 (or sometimes £55) for cheapest tickets, £75 most expensive. These venues range in size from 1,920 (Opera House) to 20,000+ (o2 Arena) yet the prices are identical.

Presumably the promoter is subsidising the smaller venues with income from the large ones. Which leads one to believe that the expensive venues (eg Paris, Vienna) are booked by local promoters/venues who are literally only putting on in that one venue so haven't got anywhere to subsidise from. Normally I prefer the idea of individual promoters for each gig, but if the Manchester gigs were (as seems) £100 a ticket cheaper than they should have been, this is a pretty good argument for one promoter being in charge of the whole tour!

golo99 wrote:I suspect it's just down to what the different promoters in the different countries/regions the tour passes through think they can get away with.

This is just another way of putting the second part of the equation, which I mentioned in my previous posts but you seem to have ignored: the venue/promoter sets the price the market will bear. Vienna is an affluent city and there are plenty of people here (yes, including me) who are willing to pay these prices. That is the operation of the market in action. No-one in their right mind would expect the venue/promoter (I'm not sure who actually sets the ticket prices, although I would have thought it was more down to the venue than the promoter) to set the prices artificially low because they think it would be a nice gesture to do so. These people are not philanthropists.

golo99 wrote:Which leads one to believe that the expensive venues (eg Paris, Vienna) are booked by local promoters/venues who are literally only putting on in that one venue so haven't got anywhere to subsidise from.

The Konzerthaus website tells us that the promoter of this concert is "KEY NETWORK A Division of SONY BMG Music Enterteinment Austria GmbH", which doesn't sound much like a small local promoter to me.

deleted

Moderator (Tom)

[thank you for apologizing ]

richardrj wrote:No-one in their right mind would expect the venue/promoter (I'm not sure who actually sets the ticket prices, although I would have thought it was more down to the venue than the promoter) to set the prices artificially low because they think it would be a nice gesture to do so. These people are not philanthropists.

So everyone's slagging Ticketmaster who charged £75 for front row at Manc Opera House, yet it's all effing fine for Osterriech Ticket to charge £160+ for even row twenty in Vienna. Filthy crooks. The Ausrtian agencies make Ticketmaster look like bloody Mother Theresa.

Hi, I apologise if I have been rude on this board, but I got quite angry earlier with someome claiming £160+ is a reasonable price for an LC gig. To be fair, I have actually paid that (for the actual gig in question) but I still don't think it's reasonable even if it includes having Len's babies ect, and I will continue to argue my point. Apologies if I got overly rude to anyone in the process though, sorry xx

richardrj wrote: Vienna is an affluent city and there are plenty of people here (yes, including me) who are willing to pay these prices.

I hope the 'words of wisdom' above do not represent opinion of most Viennese, as it would mean they are arrogant snobs.
besides: tickets for Prague concerts are even more expensive, does it mean Prague is a more affluent city than Vienna ??

I could probably afford to buy the ticket plus flight and acommodation, but I won't do it - I think this time they went overboard with the price, and it's unfair to most longtime fans who kept LC music alive when he wasn't present in the public life.

My wisdom says to me that I will not go the Konzerthaus.

I of course know that richardrj is right - it's all the market. But I don't have to play the game; I can go to another city and with same money attend 2 or even 3 shows in the row.

Anyhow, I know that the status of the venue dictates the price. And because it's like that, maybe it's better for the Warsaw show to be in Torwar than in Sala Kogresowa.

Anyhow, when it's like that, it's better that Leonard plays stadiums and sport halls and skate rings for cheap ticket prices than in snobby places for unreasonable prices.

Of course, the market is buying that. I am happy to hear that Vienna show is sold out. Good for Leonard,. I hope, not only for local promoters.

golo99 wrote:Hi, I apologise if I have been rude on this board, but I got quite angry earlier with someome claiming £160+ is a reasonable price for an LC gig. To be fair, I have actually paid that (for the actual gig in question) but I still don't think it's reasonable even if it includes having Len's babies ect, and I will continue to argue my point. Apologies if I got overly rude to anyone in the process though, sorry xx

No need to apologise, it's good to have some proper debate and discussion on here instead of the mutual Cohen love fest that every other thread on this forum quickly becomes. Saying it's unreasonable to charge €200 for a ticket is like saying it's unreasonable for a huge starving crocodile that swims up to you in a swamp to bite your leg off. This is the operation of capital in action.

The point about ticket pricing is that it is emphatically not decided on a cost plus basis, i.e. the venue just looks to cover its costs and add a reasonable profit on top. That's not how it works at all and anyone who expects venues to keep prices low in order to make them seem reasonable or to be nice to fans is frankly living in cloud cuckoo land. I may not have been paying much attention in economics class but what I do know is that the price is set at the point where profit is maximised. And as Tom says the gig is almost sold out and a second night may very well be added, so they have clearly set the price at the right level. Expecting them to do anything else is somewhat naive IMHO.

Well, 13 December 2008 the same venue hosts 'Christmas in Vienna' - top price seats €250 .. the same seat I got for Leonard costs €25 more than I paid for the LC concert! Like Tom I hope Leonard sees a good slice of the money; Like Richard I am very glad I have a ticket and the venue was a factor (albeit unlike homo economicus I am not sure my behaviour is completely rational!!!) - perhaps we'll get in free for the night after

Since LC essence is antonymous of rationality (even if he tries to be rational, spending years writing one song ) I think it''s not impossible that a next day show in the Konzerthouse will be added with a pool of tickets for fans

If people's behaviour was entirely rational Leonard Cohen wouldn't have a reason for touring -- who would like to attend a concert of an 70+ guy wearing suit and a hat, singing in a "golden voice" lyrics including vocabulary rarely used these days, with multiple cross cultural references, and a fuzzy meaning ?

mirka wrote:who would like to attend a concert of an 70+ guy wearing suit and a hat, singing in a "golden voice" lyrics including vocabulary rarely used these days, with multiple cross cultural references, and a fuzzy meaning ?

Now I know EXACTLY why I am a fan

One thing I will now say in defence of the Konzerthaus is their box office is darned efficient. The ticket I ordered late on Monday arrived from Austria this morning. The local (Brighton) ticket I ordered on Friday from Ticketmaster I'm not expecting any time soon. Plus ordering direct from the Konzerthaus, they didn't charge any service fee and didn't even charge for postage - I just paid the face value of the ticket. Which stands up well compared to Ticketmaster who lump on an extra tenner even if you're printing out your tickets at home! Still don't think it justifies charging double UK prices though!

Mine also arrived today though through oeticket so I did pay the postage. We'll see you there, hopefully, trying to enjoy yourself twice as much as usual given the cost