Whoops, I was wrong. Sorry, Linda....I did mis-take you for Linda Linmag already...when you talked about whether Leonard is artsy and but then, what is a real artist. And I said you got rather circular [teasing Linmag...or so I thought] and asking about the Font colour process.
I'll keep it straight now.
Lizzytysh
UH, RUN THAT BY ME AGAIN?
-
Kush
I was just trying to say that I think the average mainstream country music fan is more likely to pay attention to lyrics than the average mainstream rock music fan. LC's Austin concert was one of the most popular ACL shows ever along with one other (source: Terry Lickona, producer of ACL). Austin itself has a rich tradition in lyrical music. I detected a hint of condescension about C&W music in an earlier post and was probably reacting to that.
Kush
Ahh, well...on that I have to fess up. You detected correctly a hint of condescension in regard to C&W. I try really hard to be objective when it comes to that genre; but as a long-time detestor, I've come a long way, thanks to the "new" singers/songwriters on that scene. I won't name them, but C&W is not so much the maudlin, whining description of taking to the bar or the best friend's wife to process one's dysfunctional life, that it used to be.
There are still the "greats" who wrote and sang even during that time period, yet my tolerance was at such a low level, that I never stayed on a station long enough to really hear them....and I've always been a "lyric" person. There were too many soap operas set to music, they were interchangeable to my ear, so I was never really inclined to stop long enough to listen to the lyrics.....except the few words they got out, in spite of me, before my fingers reached the knob.
However, all that said, I've come a long way, and have gone through 2 periods where I woke up and drove to work and back home, listening to a C&W station. Several of the "new" singers helped in transitioning me.
I remember feeling disappointed that Leonard was headed to Nashville to play country, thinking "My Leonard?". However, I feel he has written the quintessential C&W song with "Closing Time." And "Famous Blue Raincoat" [which I do not count as a C&W song, but use it as an example of a preferred alternate approach to the same issues] addresses the same infidelity issues as so many others, yet with such elegance and class, showing introspection, self-examination, forgiveness, and gratitude. Why "That Don't Make It Junk" isn't on the Top 10 of C&W right now is beyond me. I can picture many a man [or woman] staring into his [her] drink.
You sure got that right about the mainstream rock music fan. I also agree that C&W people are into lyrics. However, I feel that overall they still tend to be more into the "story"-type format of the songs, talking about love won, love lost [and all the ramifications thereof] in the more day-to-day sense, as opposed to the circumspect, but deeply-introspective exploration of the internal world that Leonard does in his songs.
Lizzytysh
Ahh, well...on that I have to fess up. You detected correctly a hint of condescension in regard to C&W. I try really hard to be objective when it comes to that genre; but as a long-time detestor, I've come a long way, thanks to the "new" singers/songwriters on that scene. I won't name them, but C&W is not so much the maudlin, whining description of taking to the bar or the best friend's wife to process one's dysfunctional life, that it used to be.
There are still the "greats" who wrote and sang even during that time period, yet my tolerance was at such a low level, that I never stayed on a station long enough to really hear them....and I've always been a "lyric" person. There were too many soap operas set to music, they were interchangeable to my ear, so I was never really inclined to stop long enough to listen to the lyrics.....except the few words they got out, in spite of me, before my fingers reached the knob.
However, all that said, I've come a long way, and have gone through 2 periods where I woke up and drove to work and back home, listening to a C&W station. Several of the "new" singers helped in transitioning me.
I remember feeling disappointed that Leonard was headed to Nashville to play country, thinking "My Leonard?". However, I feel he has written the quintessential C&W song with "Closing Time." And "Famous Blue Raincoat" [which I do not count as a C&W song, but use it as an example of a preferred alternate approach to the same issues] addresses the same infidelity issues as so many others, yet with such elegance and class, showing introspection, self-examination, forgiveness, and gratitude. Why "That Don't Make It Junk" isn't on the Top 10 of C&W right now is beyond me. I can picture many a man [or woman] staring into his [her] drink.
You sure got that right about the mainstream rock music fan. I also agree that C&W people are into lyrics. However, I feel that overall they still tend to be more into the "story"-type format of the songs, talking about love won, love lost [and all the ramifications thereof] in the more day-to-day sense, as opposed to the circumspect, but deeply-introspective exploration of the internal world that Leonard does in his songs.
Lizzytysh
Last edited by lizzytysh on Tue Jul 02, 2002 5:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hi eeey/Grand Inquisitee
Gee, with my moniker, it gives a whole new take on G.I., doesn't it? However, with your responses, you might have made a good one, particularly under duress of enemy interrogation.
Now, to your [ahem] responses.
Neither? So, what does motivate you to make all the appropriate clicks to get you there/now here?
No....Not fine with his songs? Not a bit non-plussed [but a whole lot non-plussed?] by his poetry? Or just Dazed and Confused by it, as Partisan's phrase might have it?
On the last question, I wasn't asking for five names, as I consider Leonard to be all of those meshed into one.
However, be that as it may
, perhaps this would be simpler if I just asked you for your take on Leonard Cohen....and what brings you here?
Lizzytysh
Gee, with my moniker, it gives a whole new take on G.I., doesn't it? However, with your responses, you might have made a good one, particularly under duress of enemy interrogation.
Now, to your [ahem] responses.
Neither? So, what does motivate you to make all the appropriate clicks to get you there/now here?
No....Not fine with his songs? Not a bit non-plussed [but a whole lot non-plussed?] by his poetry? Or just Dazed and Confused by it, as Partisan's phrase might have it?
On the last question, I wasn't asking for five names, as I consider Leonard to be all of those meshed into one.
However, be that as it may
, perhaps this would be simpler if I just asked you for your take on Leonard Cohen....and what brings you here?Lizzytysh
-
Kush
Lizzytysh,
We should probably let this discussion die a natural death but I'm interested......have you ever heard a Hank Williams song ?? If that isn't "maudlin, whining description of......", then what is ? (thanks for the phrase, Dem).
And yet LC puts Hank Williams " a hundred floors above him in the tower of song". How do you explain this apparent contradiction ?
BTW, I do like Hank Williams but not as much as some other country singers.
We should probably let this discussion die a natural death but I'm interested......have you ever heard a Hank Williams song ?? If that isn't "maudlin, whining description of......", then what is ? (thanks for the phrase, Dem).
And yet LC puts Hank Williams " a hundred floors above him in the tower of song". How do you explain this apparent contradiction ?
BTW, I do like Hank Williams but not as much as some other country singers.
Hi Kush.....
Yes, I have, and actually liked him. Of course, where Leonard puts Hank, and where I put Leonard, have no bearing on each other. In that Leonard has apparently always loved/liked C&W, he tuned in to Hank Williams [one of the "greats" I was referring to] long before I did ~ and from a singer/musician/songwriter's perspective, as well. I'm none of those. Fortunately, I'm not responsible for Leonard's tastes. Loving Leonard doesn't mean I have to love or agree with everything he loves [whew--ask me about the Red Needle sometime, at least the one with the missing ingredient of Sprite
]. If we want to presume that C&W was at Leonard's roots, intermingled with everything else, he's taken that and everything else and created his own hybrid ~ apart ~ from everything else.
If I were the tender of that tower, I'd rearrange its inhabitants. If Leonard wants to be skylight roommates with Hank, fine.....however, Leonard gets the top floor.
Lizzytysh
Yes, I have, and actually liked him. Of course, where Leonard puts Hank, and where I put Leonard, have no bearing on each other. In that Leonard has apparently always loved/liked C&W, he tuned in to Hank Williams [one of the "greats" I was referring to] long before I did ~ and from a singer/musician/songwriter's perspective, as well. I'm none of those. Fortunately, I'm not responsible for Leonard's tastes. Loving Leonard doesn't mean I have to love or agree with everything he loves [whew--ask me about the Red Needle sometime, at least the one with the missing ingredient of Sprite
]. If we want to presume that C&W was at Leonard's roots, intermingled with everything else, he's taken that and everything else and created his own hybrid ~ apart ~ from everything else. If I were the tender of that tower, I'd rearrange its inhabitants. If Leonard wants to be skylight roommates with Hank, fine.....however, Leonard gets the top floor.
Lizzytysh
-
Kush
Nice try, Kush, but nope....I don't. 
I've by no means heard all of Hank's songs, and there are likely some/many[?] I wouldn't like, based on what I've already said. The ones I have heard [again, not many], I have liked.....though at the moment I couldn't give you a name of a single one of them, but if given a name, would likely recognize it.
I can't tell you one way or the other on George Jones....overall. Leonard spoke very highly of him in terms of having a voice you can trust. That resonated with me [as it's the description of Leonard's voice, as well], so I remembered his name in a positive light. At work, I recalled one of the women having said he was her favourite, so I asked her what songs has he sang. At least one of them I recognized, as being one that I've heard and liked [though again, I couldn't name it, but would likely recognize it, if given the name]. As I am recalling, from having heard further back, he died as a result of alcoholism, and wrote of his duress in this regard in his songs.
I love music and am not so closed that I ban from consideration all C&W. The heavy focus on the issues we've already alluded to is very repetitive and, for the most part, does not include the kind of reflection and introspection that Leonard's songs do. They're fairly surface in their approach [describing the situation, i.e. "she did this, I did that, he did that to me," etc. and "this is how I feel" and don't really explore the dynamics much.
Could I max out on and tire of the Hank Williams [both heard and unheard by me]? Yes, very likely. Could I do the same with Leonard? No, absolutely not.
Lizzytysh
I've by no means heard all of Hank's songs, and there are likely some/many[?] I wouldn't like, based on what I've already said. The ones I have heard [again, not many], I have liked.....though at the moment I couldn't give you a name of a single one of them, but if given a name, would likely recognize it.I can't tell you one way or the other on George Jones....overall. Leonard spoke very highly of him in terms of having a voice you can trust. That resonated with me [as it's the description of Leonard's voice, as well], so I remembered his name in a positive light. At work, I recalled one of the women having said he was her favourite, so I asked her what songs has he sang. At least one of them I recognized, as being one that I've heard and liked [though again, I couldn't name it, but would likely recognize it, if given the name]. As I am recalling, from having heard further back, he died as a result of alcoholism, and wrote of his duress in this regard in his songs.
I love music and am not so closed that I ban from consideration all C&W. The heavy focus on the issues we've already alluded to is very repetitive and, for the most part, does not include the kind of reflection and introspection that Leonard's songs do. They're fairly surface in their approach [describing the situation, i.e. "she did this, I did that, he did that to me," etc. and "this is how I feel" and don't really explore the dynamics much.
Could I max out on and tire of the Hank Williams [both heard and unheard by me]? Yes, very likely. Could I do the same with Leonard? No, absolutely not.
Lizzytysh
-
sally
-
Irene Teresa
- Posts: 122
- Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2002 1:03 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
- Contact:
Similar though some may be - no one really is the same. Sometimes I do wonder how many fans of one singer , in this case LC, can have such varied tastes when it comes to other artists they like. Do we all hear the same quality with Leonard ? Or do some hear one part and another something quite else...pondering....
Hi Irene
I should imagine there are as many ways of appreciating Leonard Cohen as there are people who admire his work, and while many will inevitably overlap I doubt if any are identical. We all bring something of ourselves to our appreciation of any artist or given piece of work.
I should imagine there are as many ways of appreciating Leonard Cohen as there are people who admire his work, and while many will inevitably overlap I doubt if any are identical. We all bring something of ourselves to our appreciation of any artist or given piece of work.
Linda
1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
Yes, Sally--I have found that to inevitably be the case myself. I'm always somehow rather amazed by it.
Yes, Irene and Linda--Just as our own versions of "reality" are shaped by our own perceptions, so go the particulars within them. There are so many aspects of Leonard and his music to appreciate that we all have much to choose from, with all of our choices equally valid.
Lizzytysh
Yes, Irene and Linda--Just as our own versions of "reality" are shaped by our own perceptions, so go the particulars within them. There are so many aspects of Leonard and his music to appreciate that we all have much to choose from, with all of our choices equally valid.
Lizzytysh
-
sally