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The Helios Airway Flight 522 jet tragedy is surreal. My condolences to the families of the people onboard. They were Greek/Turkish? It seems to be very confusing as to what led to the situation. Very bizarre and sad .

A Lemon Award for this, Lz.

A big Orange Award for California, where, on the last news, only non polluting cars where allowed to go on the reserve way - even if there are JAP cars. American models, not jugded efficient enough in this regard have not been allowed, this, despite their protest!

Have a look about the subject in general here :

http://www.calcleancars.org/


P.S. : Schwarzy is gutsy (Better than Ronny)

I've been hearing about the flooding in Europe, and now 40[?] people have died in various countries because of it. Switzerland, Germany, and others. Was anyone privy to these floods, or know anyone who was directly affected?

Now Hurricane Katrina is not just a Category 5 [strongest], but has sustained winds of 175 mph. It's headed straight for New Orleans, which is already below sea level. The accompanying rain [up to 15"] and storm surge [up to 28 feet, with even higher waves] is far more than the pumps and levees can handle. If it doesn't veer off this course, it will be catastrophic to New Orleans, and even if it does veer, it will probably be catastrophic to wherever it makes landfall. It's not due to make landfall until tomorrow morning, but the rains have already started [and 75 mph winds will be felt up to 100 miles from the eye]. HUGE storm. The Superdome and 10 last-resort shelters will be used for the 100,000, inner-city residents who have no transportation and for the tourists who couldn't fly out since the airport's been closed.

They're using very dramatic terms related to this: As bad or worse than Hurricane Camille and the one that devasted the general area in 1939; doomsday scenario; most powerful storm ever to slam the city; "We are facing a storm that most of us have long feared" [Mayor Ray Nagin]; "This is very serious; of the highest nature," the mayor said. "This is a once-in-a-lifetime event;" and "For years, forecasters have warned of the nightmare scenario a big storm could bring to New Orleans, a bowl of a city that's up to 10 feet below sea level in spots and dependent on a network of levees, canals and pumps to keep dry. It's built between the half-mile-wide Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain, half the size of the state of Rhode Island.

"Estimates have been made of tens of thousands of deaths from flooding that could overrun the levees and turn New Orleans into a 30-foot-deep toxic lake filled with chemicals and petroleum from refineries, and waste from ruined septic systems."

If you're a praying person, please pray for New Orleans and everyone there.
If you're someone who embraces the spiritual practice of envisioning New Orleans and the people bathed in white light and safety, and the storm turning course or lessening, please do that. New Orleans, and its residents and visitors, need help.

Love,
Elizabeth




Kush ~ I know you're watching Katrina closely, or at least with great interest, as it's one place you have developed a heart connection with. I'm praying that those who said they were staying in their homes, have decided to obey the mandatory evacuation. The highways are already solid with slow-moving traffic, but every mile north takes them further from the dangerous storm surge and flooding. All lanes are going north. Unfortunately, they still face many other dangers, as well.

Ah Lizzytysh...thanks for remembering. Yes indeed I have been following Katrina's progress and have been in touch with my fellow pilgrims to the Big Easy about it. Most of New Orleans is beneath sea level so it is particularly susceptible to flooding and related devastation. And how do you evacuate a city of 450,000+ residents?
Lets hope for the best under the circumstances - the authorities seem to be taking all possible precautions. I have no doubt though that once all this is over music will once again be blaring from Bourbon Street bars and Hurricanes (the drink) be flowing.

I hope you're right, Kush. I know that newscasting tends to the melodramatic to keep viewers tuned in.....however, there is so much that looks bad, and so little that looks hopeful. It's good for you to hold that vision. I didn't realize until I left here today that the Superdome is also not considered a real shelter, and that people are still in danger there; they're only better off than being in a low-lying area in a lesser structure.

Unfortunately, in this case, scientists aren't of the media breed ~ "Scientists predicted Katrina could easily overtake that levee system, swamping the city under a 30-feet cesspool of toxic chemicals, human waste and even coffins that could leave more than 1 million people homeless." They don't mention here what was mentioned by some newscaster, that due to the 'bowl' nature of the city, with surges that high, after the hurricane passed, there would be any number of alligators and cottonmouth snakes [water moccasins] left there, carried by the surge. All that bizarre stuff that keeps getting said ~ you really want to believe it's hype, but New Orleans is literally in the bayou, where those creatures abound.

I was stunned when I was seeing all the unexpected flooding in Europe. The dangers don't even subside after the initial flood action. With hurricanes it's like that, too.

I'm still praying for all those people. As you say, evacuation of that many [or even that many minus 100,000] seems absurdly impossible.

~ Lizzy

Well, this morning, I heard the snakes and alligator comment, regarding if Lake Pontchartrain [at high risk] floods, and breaks down/comes over the levees. Regarding the lessening of the storm, some commentator analogized it as being the difference between being hit by an 18-wheeler or a locomotive . The minor shift to the east apparently doesn't take New Orleans out of harm's way, due to the counter-clockwise motion of the winds of hurricanes. So, if it passes beyond New Orleans, those winds coming over the Lake would be driving from the north, going south over the Lake. The causeway to the Lake has already flooded out. If the Lake floods, they say the result would be the worst flood in U.S. history; and that the [[people-dwarfing] turbines they have are still only geared to address heavy rains, not storm surges. If New Orleans floods, it could take from weeks up to six months to drain it. With the Superdome being a "shelter of last resort," the people are sitting on the seats of the auditorium, fearing it will flood. I just saw a TV report this morning, the first I've seen all weekend. I am seriously praying for much of what I see and hear to be 'alarmist' in nature.

This is a CNN article I just read, entitled "Katrina may be 'our Asian tsunami'."

(CNN) -- Flooding expected from Hurricane Katrina could wreak catastrophe on New Orleans, overwhelming its water and sewage systems, damaging its structures and leaving survivors in a bowl of toxic soup, a top hurricane expert said Sunday.

Katrina made landfall Monday morning between Grand Isle, Louisiana, and the mouth of the Mississippi River. (Watch the latest update)

"We need to recognize we may be about to experience our equivalent of the Asian tsunami, in terms of the damage and the numbers of people that can be killed," said Ivor van Heerden, director of the Louisiana State University Public Health Research Center in Baton Rouge.

Some 25 feet of standing water is expected in many parts of the city -- almost twice the height of the average home -- and computer models suggest that more than 80 percent of buildings would be badly damaged or destroyed, he said. (Watch a report on the worst-case scenario)

Floodwaters from the east would carry toxic waste from the "Industrial Canal" area, nicknamed after the chemical plants there. From the west, floodwaters would flow through the Norco Destrehan Industrial Complex, which includes refineries and chemical plants, said van Heerden, who has studied computer models about the impact of a strong hurricane for four years.

"These chemical plants are going to start flying apart, just as the other buildings do," he predicted. "So, we have the potential for release of benzene, hydrochloric acid, chlorine and so on."

That could result in severe air and water pollution, he said.

In New Orleans, which lies below sea level, gas and diesel tanks are all located above ground for the same reason that bodies are buried above ground. In the event of a flood, "those tanks will start to float, shear their couplings, and we'll have the release of these rather volatile compounds," van Heerden added.

Because gasoline floats on water, "we could end up with some pretty severe and large -- area-wise -- fires."

"So, we're looking at a bowl full of highly contaminated water with contaminated air flowing around and, literally, very few places for anybody to go where they'll be safe."

He went further.

"So, imagine you're the poor person who decides not to evacuate: Your house will disintegrate around you. The best you'll be able to do is hang on to a light pole, and while you're hanging on, the fire ants from all the mounds -- of which there is two per yard on average -- will clamber up that same pole. And, eventually, the fire ants will win."

The levees intended to protect the city vary in height, from as low as 10 feet above sea level to about 14 feet, he said. They too are vulnerable, because they are made of earth, he said.

Disaster waiting to happen
Previous studies have suggested a catastrophic toll in lives and property if a major hurricane were to hit the New Orleans area, where about 1.3 million people live.

Walter Maestri, the emergency management chief in neighboring Jefferson Parish, said Hurricane Georges in 1998 could have killed as many as 44,000 people had it struck the city directly.

"The way it's described, we describe it here, is Lake Pontchartrain has now become Lake New Orleans," he told CNN in 2004.

Van Heerden said levees built to protect New Orleans from Lake Pontchartrain could be buffeted by waves from the lake, which is about 23 miles by 35 miles in area.

"You're going to have enormous waves develop on that lake, especially with as much as 14 hours of hurricane-force winds." Those waves will erode the levees, raising the possibility of their collapse, he said.

"This is what we've been saying has been going to happen for years," he said. "Unfortunately, it's coming true."

Rick Luettich, a professor at the University of North Carolina's Institute of Marine Sciences, compared Katrina's expected impact on areas far up the Mississippi to "grabbing the end of the bed cover and giving it a hard snap."

That snap will push "probably in excess of 10 feet" of floodwater up the river, he predicted. "It will propagate up the river like a wave," past Baton Rouge, more than 70 miles away, he said.

For 15 years, Luettich has been developing a hydrodynamic circulation model -- called AdCirc -- that he said the Federal Emergency Management Agency has endorsed to help emergency managers predict storm damage.

Apologizing for the possibility that his comment could be interpreted as somewhat ghoulish, he said, "This is, in some ways, a little bit exciting for us, because it's a real opportunity to test this technology we've developed and see how well it works."

We'll know more in several hours. Power is out in the French Quarter. There are some serious, headline writers out there ~ "Katrina May Turn New Orleans into Atlantis." [Writing about it is how I work through my stress.]

In Mississippi, some shelters have been evacuated a second time due to flooding, and people are still evacuating from that area.

All of New Orleans is now without power. The "pumping stations" have stopped [due to power being out], which means they're no longer essentially draining the city, and there's standing water at curb level, but increasing by the minute. If they can get generators working, they can get the stations working, but the problem is that this would require getting people into unsafe areas in order to do so.

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Part of the roof of the Superdome has sprung leaks, letting in water and daylight, with people being moved. Some storm shutters in New Orleans have given way and are flying in the air.

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A trailer at the bottom of the screen on CNN just said, "Mississippi Levee Breaks at New Orleans French Quarter." I'm looking for more information on that.

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There's structural damage throughout New Orleans now, and some homes are flooded to the ceilings. The pumps [that aren't working] are geared to addressing only 2" [inches] of rain. Landline phones have stopped working, and they're concerned that the cell phones may go out, as well. The Superdome continues to let in water [pouring in/seeing daylight where a portion of the roof has been torn off], and the hotel where one of the reporters is staying has moved all the residents to an inner ballroom.

The levee that's broken is one of the main ones.
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Another trailer has come up saying that the Lake Pontchartrain Levee has given way, but they're not giving additional information about that. Some apartment building in Harvey, Louisiana has collapsed and people are trapped. The worst is hitting New Orleans now, and will continue for another [approx.] 1.5 hours. A hundred windows at the Hyatt Regency New Orleans. They're saying the continual battering is what will continue to weaken the structures.
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10:45 AM ~ The water has been declared undrinkable in New Orleans. However, the hurricane has now downgraded to a Category 3.
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"Lower 9th Ward of New Orleans, on east side of city, under 5 to 6 feet of water after pumps fail, mayor says."
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11:15 AM ~ The report just said that there's no flooding in the French Quarter. But, then, immediately after that they gave a report that the levees of Lake Pontchartrain have just been "overtopped" with water, and that it's of great concern to the city. There are people on roofs in New Orleans awaiting rescue.
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11:40 AM ~ Now, they're saying it looks like they've avoided the worst-case scenario in New Orleans, even though they're still going to be battered for hours to come today.
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12:15 PM ~ Area south of Lake Pontchartrain flooded under 8 feet of water [almost completely covering U-Haul trucks]. In Gulfport, Mississippi, 10 feet of water is covering the streets. Whitecaps on the water in flooded streets, due to the wind.
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1:36 PM ~ People climbing into their attics in New Orleans to avoid the rising water in their homes. Obviously, heavy material losses for them. Hopefully, not their lives.

"Katrina: Flooding, felled buildings

* 10 feet of water covers Gulfport, Mississippi, streets
* East side of New Orleans under 5 to 6 feet of water
* Mobile Bay spills into downtown
* "Total structural failure" in parts of New Orleans
* Hurricane Katrina now Category 2, with 105 mph wind"

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It seems that New Orleans has survived this onslaught, as well as can optimally be expected, given the circumstances and the hurricane's magnitude. We'll know more as search-and-rescue and various tallies occur. However, it wasn't the catacylsmic happening that was so feared.
Thank G~d . Alabama seems the hardest hit. Praying the casualties were low there. New Orleans was certainly the most vulnerable in terms of life and property losses. The property losses are horrendous in both places, by the sounds of it.

For future reference, from the analogies being made, it seems the easiest way to visualize New Orleans is as a cereal bowl, with the surrounding levees emptying into it.

Not so bad, Katrina had lost force from 5 to 3 when hitting the land, it is passed now with less damages then expected. The French Quarter has been the most damaged. The Superdome made it without major problem, thanks G_d.

Meteorologists said that all these big winds of all sorts of these last 10 years are due to the increasing heat of the planet

When we know that the use of petrol is one of the main cause for this it appears clearly how vain it is to fight for paying gaz one dollar more or less.

Also, what do we have to cling to dinausor's piss like if it was the only source of energy?

Pretty vicious circle.

There is plenty of clean energy.

Looks more like a collective suicide, the "economy of petrol", "the only we have" (????) than a mature adult intelligent thing to cling to.

The market is already there for clean energy. People want to live in accordance with the environment, so stop asking for a dollar less at the dinausor's piss pump and ask for the electric car. A change is a change. So while asking for it, better go for the best.

Tchoco wrote:so stop asking for a dollar less at the dinausor's piss pump and ask for the electric car.

Yes, you're quite right, Tchoc. I've looked at ads and these electric cars are not as expensive as they used to be. One 'hybrid' costs less than $30,000 - and is not bad looking. Also, it gets quite a lot of mileage - I'm not sure of the numbers, but far better mileage than the ordinary DP fuelled vehicle.

It's hard to say (for us in Canada, at least) how high the price of electricity will jump, though. I recently switched from natural gas to electric for hot water, and the price of hydro has risen quite a bit! But, in the end, it probably won't make much of a difference (economically) as most of our natural resources are now owned by the states. Terrassen (fuel, hydro and water) is now controlled by the US. No breaks there.

Your point is well taken though. It is our insatiable need for fuel, that is damaging our environment. We will pay, one way or the other.

Linda.

We will pay, one way or the other.

Exact.

So true, Ln.

When it comes to the use of energy, it seems that many people can't see other solutions than to return to the past. Strange. Strange as they are plenty of other ways to extract energy from our world. The fact that those are not used now is not an argument. There is plenty of other solutions and not only electricity (which brings other form of pollution in too much concentration).

When it comes to cancer and sida, there is a pressure for research and findind new solutions and it is panic on the titanic, big campaings, big concerns. Now we are all dying like frogs in hot water. Frogs, when put in a comfortable water won't move if you increase the heat slowly. It will stay there until the water will boil and die. Now don't try to put one in an already boiling water the frog will not die but run (jump?) away as far as possible from the danger.

Right now we are like frogs in hot water. Tomorrow it will boil.

The oceans right now are already much too hot for our own good and we are using them as garbage can.

Also when people do not want that a green space would be destroy in the town because of the quality of life and the value of the proprieties, it takes no time that they organize themselves, are out there making pression. And the green spaces stay.

So there is no other problem then the uncounciousness. So sad. such a "little" problem.

Not only cars are part of the increasing heat on Earth. Big cities are also.

The micro climat of big cities could be avoid by :

http://www.greenroofs.com/

And using solar energy and wind mills among other clean energy.

Well the list is long, the list of solutions.

Right now we can take care of what we are doing in order to reduce pollution of all sorts, including protecting the ozone layer, even if this seems such and esoteric problem, the ozone layer. Every little solution that is done became a big, huge solution when everybody is doing its little part.

Ah! BTW I learned that Brit was born in Louisiane. Interesting. I guess we should lost time to hate her also about that. And print and read magazines about that also. So important.

Finally, we should have pray/send light to Mississipi also. They did not protect themselves and there is a lot of... well. This is sad.

Seeing some of the footage and photos of what actually did occur in New Orleans and Mississippi confirms that the catastrophic predictions regarding a direct hit on New Orleans were very real, and not hype at all. As it is, at least 55 are dead, with the count to rise much higher.

In some areas of New Orleans, fast-moving water rose very suddenly after "the worst" of the storm had already passed, and engulfed some homes to the eaves of the roofs, and some completely over the roofs. Some people barely had time to scramble into their attics and break holes in the roofs for escape. Some dreadful scenes were being emotionally described by the Governor, including dogs being wrapped in live, electrical wire, being electrocuted repeatedly while still alive.

It's being stressed that the worst of the hurricane season has really just started. I pray that people will follow early orders to evacuate in the future, and not try to brave out the storm. There are many photos and articles, plus footage, on the various, news websites [CNN/Fox/etc.].

My heart is with everyone in those badly-stricken areas. May those who survived remain safe.

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I just saw and heard the report from the Governor's office [a spokesperson] that said that 80% of New Orleans is now flooded and it's worsening. They thought they had avoided the majority of the water issue, but it's continuing to come, and it's now obvious that there were more breaches than they had first thought. The pumps still aren't working to drain it. Marshall Law is in effect and people are not being allowed in; when asked how anyone who's there and wants to get out will be able to, the spokeswoman said, "I wish I knew." At least one home, already flooded, is burning, but there's no way to get to it, and it's surrounded by water, anyway. The last I knew, the water pressure was so low as to make the fire rescue's hoses irrelevant, anyway.

I just saw footage of an extremely distraught man, in New Orleans, whose flooded house split in half with him, his wife, and their children on the roof. He had to make a split-second decision of who to save, his wife or his children, and watched while his wife floated away with the other half of the house .

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I don't know who else may be following the situation in New Orleans, but the flooding is continues and the doomsday scenario everyone has feared appears to be beginning to unfold. They have no plan for repair of the breaches in the levee, as they don't know how to address it. There appears to be more breaches than they thought. The hospital is moving patients to higher ground, and the Times-Picayune staff are evacuating to higher buildings, as well. White caps are still being seen in the streets, as the water is moving so fast, as the lake is unloading into the city. People are stranded everywhere, health conditions are at high danger, and those in the Superdome are suffering worsening and dangerous conditions, with no way of evacuating them, either. Some of the wind gusts during the storm were 190 mph.

I just heard a correction on FOX News that New Orleans is not under Martial Law, but it really makes no difference. Canal Street is now flooded, and the water is going into the French Quarter. They don't know why, and are trying to get people into the area to assess it. People are still on rooftops, and they have no way of getting food and water to them, and don't know how long they'll be able to sustain life in the flooded areas. In the southeastern area of Louisiana, the Mississippi River has completely reclaimed an entire county. There's now only one way out of the city, Highway 90, but they're having trouble getting people evacuated. All people with a flat-bottom boat have been asked/'ordered' by the Mayor to report with their boats to a particular, Sam's store location with their boats for a massive, search-and-rescue effort.

2:20 PM ~ The French Quarter is now under 9 inches of water and it's still rising.

They're now trying to drop sandbags in one of the breaches in the levee, as they're being lowered into place via helicopter.

The water around the Superdome is now waist deep.

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Kush ~ The footage and the reports are looking catastrophic for New Orleans. FEMA is mobilizing its largest rescue effort ever in modern history. The city will be totally non-functioning for at least two months. There is nothing. Water is pouring into the city from both Lake Pontchartrain and the Mississippi River. I believe I've already mentioned that the pumps are designed to address 2-4 inches of rainwater only. They're anticipating that it will be up to two months before electricity is restored. The officials are now wondering if and for how long they are going to be able to sustain life in the affected areas. It's horrifying.

Regarding the fuel costs and airline industry, they are also saying that the industry may also be impacted by rising ticket prices. That could inadvertently end up affecting me and others regarding Berlin [the least of my concerns given the magnitude of this human tragedy].

I don't know who has or hasn't been following the coverage of Hurricane Katrina's impact, but the levee is broken in three places, one which is 300 ft wide, and maximum of 26 feet deep. As of last night, efforts to repair it were stopped by the Corps of Engineers, and another plan is trying to be devised. More flooding continues. Everyone in New Orleans has been ordered to evacuate, due to the increased flooding. Those inside and outside the Superdome will be needing to evacuate as soon as possible, as well. Rescue efforts to save as many lives as they possibly can is priority right now. They are considering bringing cruise ships into the area to house at least some of the people.

Meanwhile, "648 dead, 322 hurt in Iraq bridge stampede," and I can understand Tom and Masha's question regarding the state of the world. More pain for Iraq.

Yes, I feel horrible about what's happened and continues to happen in our southern states and New Orleans. We are watching New Orleans be destroyed. It's one of our most soulful, long-standing cities of culture, uniqueness, and individuality. It's painful to watch neighbourhoods completely obliterated, and untold numbers of people and animals die.

The martial law or not martial law issue was one of verbiage. That term doesn't exist in Louisiana law. It's a declared "state of emergency" there, with armed officers, who are not allowing anyone in and have the right to suspend civil rights. It's the same concept; just different terminology.

Still, other people, other places suffer and their own lives are destroyed.

martial law

Thanks, Anne.....you're so right. We have the Marshall Act here, "relating to airplane flights involving mandatory sky marshall on flights to promote public safety" and a number of other "Marshall" applications [Supreme Court Judge Thurgood Marshall, etc.]

I was in the right place with concept, but my mind sure wasn't in proper spelling mode, when I wrote that. It also automatically affects capitalization. I'll go back and make the corrections. Thanks.