melancholic...
I didn't mean that Please Don't Pass Me By was a manic depressive song, Elizabeth. I meant that the description of the symptoms offered in Ira Nadel's biography certainly seemed to apply to Leonard.
Linda
1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
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Guest
Linda: -- I agree that the description that Ira gave fits Leonard. I went back and re-read your Post, and I see where you made the break in your own mind with the sentence break, yet where I was able to still make the link between them, as Kush had just quoted Ira and then directly referenced the song in those same specific terms, and I took it that you'd applied the quote and come to the same conclusion on the song [or on his explanation of how the song came to be written]. Ah well....
Kush: -- Oh, Okay. With your strong stand of, "If this isn't.....then what is?" I interpreted your position as one of universal obviousness, as opposed to personal observation and effect/impact.
I set the same trap for myself, and fell into it, as K.T. did in trying to make quick generalities regarding Leonard and anything done by him. The plea I feel he makes in "Please..." doesn't have just to do with the external "mutilations" and the outcasts [easily symbolic for rejection], but rather that we recognize and acknowledge the value in everyone...that we not be "blind" to each other...and that we remain open to taking others seriously, as the valid human beings that they are. Turning a blind eye to another, in need or not in need, may create a pattern that may come to revisit you, when you are most in need. I see it as a cautionary song regarding compassion and due respect for others....and caring about their internal worlds. If I took more time, I'd be adding to this, what it means for me.
Lizzytysh
Kush: -- Oh, Okay. With your strong stand of, "If this isn't.....then what is?" I interpreted your position as one of universal obviousness, as opposed to personal observation and effect/impact.
I set the same trap for myself, and fell into it, as K.T. did in trying to make quick generalities regarding Leonard and anything done by him. The plea I feel he makes in "Please..." doesn't have just to do with the external "mutilations" and the outcasts [easily symbolic for rejection], but rather that we recognize and acknowledge the value in everyone...that we not be "blind" to each other...and that we remain open to taking others seriously, as the valid human beings that they are. Turning a blind eye to another, in need or not in need, may create a pattern that may come to revisit you, when you are most in need. I see it as a cautionary song regarding compassion and due respect for others....and caring about their internal worlds. If I took more time, I'd be adding to this, what it means for me.
Lizzytysh
P.S. Dem...not Kush
The "internal worlds" of my previous answer would include manic-depression, as well, including Leonard's.
Lizzytysh
The "internal worlds" of my previous answer would include manic-depression, as well, including Leonard's.
Lizzytysh
Last edited by lizzytysh on Wed Jul 03, 2002 2:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dear lizzytysh,
I am afraid that you are confusing Kush with me.
Dem
PS)I agree with your interpretation of "Please don't pass me by".
It is also about compassion, but I think not only about it.
I think it is also a love song.
As we know well from post-modern theories about literature (with which I tend to agree) there are countless interpretations to a text and none of them is more valid than the other.
Or if you prefer:
The literary text is "open".
That's all for the moment,
Demetris
I am afraid that you are confusing Kush with me.
Dem
PS)I agree with your interpretation of "Please don't pass me by".
It is also about compassion, but I think not only about it.
I think it is also a love song.
As we know well from post-modern theories about literature (with which I tend to agree) there are countless interpretations to a text and none of them is more valid than the other.
Or if you prefer:
The literary text is "open".
That's all for the moment,
Demetris
You're right, Dem. Sorry for the error. With the scrolling, et al, once I'm trying to comment to a message on another page, it gets tricky. Kush is my C&W discussion.
I also agree with the multiple possibilities all being valid in their own right. Yes, I agree on the love song aspect as well on Please Don't Pass Me By. That's why it can get frustrating to try to discuss any particular song in snippets. To truly be fair, you have to launch an all-out analysis [even then, when you click out, you still have more thoughts waiting], or lace your limited input with disclaimers and caveats.
This is why I feel that Leonard's work will get a lot of coverage in poetry and literature classes in the years to come, particularly with some doing doctoral theses on it already.
Lizzytysh
I also agree with the multiple possibilities all being valid in their own right. Yes, I agree on the love song aspect as well on Please Don't Pass Me By. That's why it can get frustrating to try to discuss any particular song in snippets. To truly be fair, you have to launch an all-out analysis [even then, when you click out, you still have more thoughts waiting], or lace your limited input with disclaimers and caveats.
This is why I feel that Leonard's work will get a lot of coverage in poetry and literature classes in the years to come, particularly with some doing doctoral theses on it already.
Lizzytysh
Dem
There was a woman on the V.P. Board months back [I want to say from Sweden, but not sure....in the northern hemisphere], who was doing hers based on Alexandra Leaving. At the time, I asked her if she could somehow share it upon its completion, but it seems she had attributed its origin to someone/something other than the poet who wrote the original poem that it's based on. It seems that at the time, that information came to the fore [after a fan expressed her confusion with its not being attributed in the liner notes] and Leonard addressed it, apologizing for that omission, but stating that it had been clearly addressed/attributed elsewhere [not in those exact words, but that's the jist]. We never heard how she [the thesis woman] did on it. So, I don't know if she revamped it or what. I can't think of a better choice for someone majoring in literature.
There's a woman, whom I am recalling is at the doctorate level, who has done some analyses of Leonard's work and I believe they're posted here, on Jarkko's site, I think in the Analysis section, but I'm sure you've already read those. Hers aren't necessarily for any purpose other than her own interest, though. It seems she has an Oriental-type name.
I hate to send you on a quest for the first woman on the Board. I'll peruse the table of contents when I'm there, and see if I can locate it for you. Perhaps she's still reachable personally by email through the Posting option, but it seems if they haven't been there in awhile, that option goes dead. I'll let you know.
Lightning [on the Board] has offered some interesting and educational analyses of at least various aspects of songs.
Lizzytysh
There was a woman on the V.P. Board months back [I want to say from Sweden, but not sure....in the northern hemisphere], who was doing hers based on Alexandra Leaving. At the time, I asked her if she could somehow share it upon its completion, but it seems she had attributed its origin to someone/something other than the poet who wrote the original poem that it's based on. It seems that at the time, that information came to the fore [after a fan expressed her confusion with its not being attributed in the liner notes] and Leonard addressed it, apologizing for that omission, but stating that it had been clearly addressed/attributed elsewhere [not in those exact words, but that's the jist]. We never heard how she [the thesis woman] did on it. So, I don't know if she revamped it or what. I can't think of a better choice for someone majoring in literature.
There's a woman, whom I am recalling is at the doctorate level, who has done some analyses of Leonard's work and I believe they're posted here, on Jarkko's site, I think in the Analysis section, but I'm sure you've already read those. Hers aren't necessarily for any purpose other than her own interest, though. It seems she has an Oriental-type name.
I hate to send you on a quest for the first woman on the Board. I'll peruse the table of contents when I'm there, and see if I can locate it for you. Perhaps she's still reachable personally by email through the Posting option, but it seems if they haven't been there in awhile, that option goes dead. I'll let you know.
Lightning [on the Board] has offered some interesting and educational analyses of at least various aspects of songs.
Lizzytysh
Dear lizzytych,
thank you for the information. I will try to locate that woman.
Btw, you mean that she had atributed the original poem "The god forsakes Antony" to somebody else than Cavafy?
When Leonard sent the poem "Alexandra Leaving" to Jarkko's site, he clearly stated that it was written after Cavafy.
But when the TNS cd was released, somehow this information was ommited from the liner notes, causing thus a confusion.
Anyway, as it happens to be Greek and to love Cavafy, I have posted a small article about "Alexandra Leaving" on Jarkko's site, too.
Anyone intersted can find it there using the site's search engine.
Dem
thank you for the information. I will try to locate that woman.
Btw, you mean that she had atributed the original poem "The god forsakes Antony" to somebody else than Cavafy?
When Leonard sent the poem "Alexandra Leaving" to Jarkko's site, he clearly stated that it was written after Cavafy.
But when the TNS cd was released, somehow this information was ommited from the liner notes, causing thus a confusion.
Anyway, as it happens to be Greek and to love Cavafy, I have posted a small article about "Alexandra Leaving" on Jarkko's site, too.
Anyone intersted can find it there using the site's search engine.
Dem
Athens 2008, Prague 2009, Paris 2012
Dear Dem....Thanks. I will check yours out on Jarkko's designated site for that, I'm guessing the Analysis section? Thanks for the lead. I enjoy [and learn from] the analyses...particularly with those who have the historical data correct. I was trying to remember exactly whether she accounted it to a different poet or a different event in history. I'll, of course, know better when I [or you] locate it. Shall we race? 
Get ready, get set, GO! It was so long ago and so much has happened all-round that I have the vague, concept details, absent the necessarily-accurate specifics.
Lizzytysh
Get ready, get set, GO! It was so long ago and so much has happened all-round that I have the vague, concept details, absent the necessarily-accurate specifics.Lizzytysh
That was an interesting piece you added to the translation of Cavafy's poem, Dem, but it took some finding. I searched on 'Alexandra Leaving' first, and found all those translations you did from Greek newspapers, which also made very good reading. If anyone else is having trouble finding Dem's article, the thing to search on is 'The God Abandons Antony'.
Linda
1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
1972: Leeds, 2008: Manchester, Lyon, London O2, 2009: Wet Weybridge, 2012: Hop Farm/Wembley Arena
what is his religion?
In looking back through interview of Leonards, when asked if he was a Buddist his reply was "I began my studies with my old teacher not to find a new religion. He was not looking to convert me to Buddism. I am happy with my religion, it is the religion of my parents and grandparents. It was something different. Sometime ago I met an old man who was much wiser than I. And I began to sudy with him." Also in the on-line chat when asked "Does religion matter" His reply was "Religions are among the great organizing principles of humanity. It seems to me they matter too much and not enough". In all his references to God and prayer in his poetry also, I do not agree with you on him not believing in a personal God and religion.
Einstein was not associated with any orthodox religion, but his nature was deeply religious. He never believed the universe to be one of chance, he believed in the creator.
Einstein was not associated with any orthodox religion, but his nature was deeply religious. He never believed the universe to be one of chance, he believed in the creator.
Linda
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Irene Teresa
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Kush
Ok...here goes.
re' Einstein...please read The Quotable Einstein pg 143-163 On religion God and Philosophy. If inclined also read Ideas and Opinions ---one of the finest books in existence (IMHO of course).
excerpts from the former
(Introduction) Einstein's "religion" as he often explained it, was an attitude of cosmic awe and wonder and a devout humility before the harmony of nature, rather than a belief in a personal God who is able to control the lives of individuals.
(excerpts from quotes) " Why do you write to me, "God should punish the English"? I have no close connection to either one or the other. I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of his children for their numerous stupidities, for which He himself can be responsible, in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
- letter to Edgar Meyer, a Swiss colleague
"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive"
- letter to Beatrice Frohlich
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever.....This is a somewhat new kind of religion".
- letter to Hans Muehsam
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never deinied this but have expressed it quite clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious, then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as science can reveal it."
- Letter to an admirer , March 22, 1954.
........
There is another rather explosive quote (pg 154) that I'd rather not put here for fear of starting a war.
re' LC...I frankly don't know since he tends to be less direct as AE in his interviews. However that's the feeling I get reading between the lines...I remember one example where during the chatroom interview somebody asked him what he means by 'Closing Time'. He replied "it's the time when everything stops expanding and starts contracting".....that phrase actually comes from one of the theories of the universe (source : A brief History of Time - Stephen Hawking) so he is obviously aware. (In fact one of the burning questions I have for him is has he read anything by Stephen Hawking or Carl Sagan).
As for his songs, yes If it Be Your Will or God is Alive.....are some of my favorites but I guess we are interpreting it differently.
Ok....I rest my case on this subject and it is closed for me.
p.s. Lizzytysh...i think I broke your record for the length of this posting
re' Einstein...please read The Quotable Einstein pg 143-163 On religion God and Philosophy. If inclined also read Ideas and Opinions ---one of the finest books in existence (IMHO of course).
excerpts from the former
(Introduction) Einstein's "religion" as he often explained it, was an attitude of cosmic awe and wonder and a devout humility before the harmony of nature, rather than a belief in a personal God who is able to control the lives of individuals.
(excerpts from quotes) " Why do you write to me, "God should punish the English"? I have no close connection to either one or the other. I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of his children for their numerous stupidities, for which He himself can be responsible, in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
- letter to Edgar Meyer, a Swiss colleague
"The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive"
- letter to Beatrice Frohlich
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever.....This is a somewhat new kind of religion".
- letter to Hans Muehsam
"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never deinied this but have expressed it quite clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious, then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as science can reveal it."
- Letter to an admirer , March 22, 1954.
........
There is another rather explosive quote (pg 154) that I'd rather not put here for fear of starting a war.
re' LC...I frankly don't know since he tends to be less direct as AE in his interviews. However that's the feeling I get reading between the lines...I remember one example where during the chatroom interview somebody asked him what he means by 'Closing Time'. He replied "it's the time when everything stops expanding and starts contracting".....that phrase actually comes from one of the theories of the universe (source : A brief History of Time - Stephen Hawking) so he is obviously aware. (In fact one of the burning questions I have for him is has he read anything by Stephen Hawking or Carl Sagan).
As for his songs, yes If it Be Your Will or God is Alive.....are some of my favorites but I guess we are interpreting it differently.
Ok....I rest my case on this subject and it is closed for me.
p.s. Lizzytysh...i think I broke your record for the length of this posting
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Kush
Linda:
Linmag's comment was exactly what I thought ~ well said. Thanks for pointing the way to Dem's writing.
Kush:
Are "the creator" and a "personal G..d" necessarily the same? Even though Linda seemed to interpret it as a "personal G..d," her last sentence only references, "He never believed the universe to be one of chance, he believed in the creator." I'd be interested to know where you got this, Linda, as to me there is a distinction between the two.
I bow to you on your breaking my record, Kush [it needed to be done
.....so as yours get longer, mine get shorter 
] ~
Lizzytysh
Linmag's comment was exactly what I thought ~ well said. Thanks for pointing the way to Dem's writing.
Kush:
Are "the creator" and a "personal G..d" necessarily the same? Even though Linda seemed to interpret it as a "personal G..d," her last sentence only references, "He never believed the universe to be one of chance, he believed in the creator." I'd be interested to know where you got this, Linda, as to me there is a distinction between the two.
I bow to you on your breaking my record, Kush [it needed to be done
.....so as yours get longer, mine get shorter ] ~ Lizzytysh