Why do Cohen fans seem to suffer from depression?

[lizzytysh]

Yes, Irene....that's an excellent way of addressing those very serious issues....and fun is fun, yet suicide....how could anything be any more serious? Recognizing the validity of that and the feelings of those who are in that space.....well, remiss....if we don't.

I've also always really liked the dark and introspective music, yet never really thought of it in terms of "depressing." I guess I've always considered it "real" and all those other, like terms. Perhaps it's the difference of being on the inside looking out, or the outside looking in. That's not to say that I dwell in depression, as I don't. However, the songs that deal with those deep inner spaces, the dark and the light, have always resonated with me.

That's funny what you say about the happy music causing them to feel agitated. Not all [by any means, as there are a number of up/positive/etc. songs that I love] "happy" songs cause me to feel that way, however, I have experienced that when I've felt down, and know the resentment and the feeling that my feelings were being discounted that, that created. The "hey, cheer up " approach when all you really want is someone to recognize, acknowledge, validate, and honour that this is how you feel.

Thanks for giving us the mental health perspective.

Love, Lizzytysh

Kush: This answer was also meant to include you, as I read your post first.

[chuckles the clown]

Great ladies.

Way to put a damper on things!

[lizzytysh]

You're welcome, Chuckles. I've also worked in a mental hospital [they called them "state hospitals," not privately-owned, but state-run institutions]. The depictions in the movies are understatements of the realities many of those people live in. If you've ever known anyone who's committed suicide [personally known three, and I know others here have known some as well], the humour regarding it wears thin on an Internet forum after not too long. Hopefully, your day will get better.
~Lizzytysh

[Kush]

I give up....lost cause !!
Hear LCs first three albums...if the dull monotone is not depressing music then what is (compared to say Beatles records of that era) ?? And this not meant as a criticism...they are my favorites. Just putting things in perspective, atleast for myself.

[chuckles the clown]

Kush, sir,

I Agree with you.


Lizzytysh,

It's odd that those who love Leonard, always seem to know a lot of people who commit suicide. Or should that be the other way around?

[Kush]

Thanks Chuckles.
And talking of criticism...Is criticism of LC allowed on this board or is that not appreciated ?? The picture I get of LC on this site seems to be very one-dimensional (guru, saint etc etc) ...that causes me to lose respect for him or atleast lose interest in the person. Is he really interested in perpetuating such a one-dimensional image of himself ??

[Partisan]

http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/board/ ... ay&num=454

Kush you will need to copy and paste that in to your browser as it does not seemed to have copied as an active link. people do sometimes criticise, but as you will see reading this thread, most people cannot conceive of the master doing anything less than perfect.
p.

[Partisan]

ok, so when i actually post it the active link does work. it was funny going back and reading that thread, it is interesting. kush, could it be that you are one of the sheep you don't like? self loathing is not healthy.
p.

[eeey]

And Kush, whatever you do - don't mention idolatry!

[Kush]

Partisan....I prefer to engage rather than indulge in sarcasm and mindless criticism as well as passing judgment on other people.
And I really do love TNS.

[Partisan]

mindless criticism? would that be criticism you do not agree with? as for sarcasm i very rarely use it, and and i am struggling to recall an occasion on the various boards. irony on the other hand is a favourite tool, but i use that sparingly too. surely though, that old cliche that americans have no idea what that is can not be true.
p.

[lizzytysh]

Dear Kush,

Please allow me to clarify my terms/usages, as this is starting to look like a semantics issue. These are my "definitions." It really helps to define/agree on your terms/usages first.

(1) Depressed writer - the writer feels depressed when they writer. Their feelings may or may not come through in their work. The impact of their work on the listener may or may not be that of causing the listener to feel depressed as a result of their listening to the work.

(2) "Depressed"/maybe "depressive" writing - the writer [apparently] felt depressed when they wrote the work, though this may not necessarily be so, and the result is that the work sounds as if the writer was depressed. Someone who is not depressed can still have the ability to write stuff that sounds like they were when they wrote it.

(3) Depressing material - material that is generally considered by "most" to have a depressing effect on people, simply because of the subject matter, i.e. a song about September 11; a song about the death of one's father/mother/other loved one; etc. However, even this kind of material does not always have a depressing effect on the listener, it again depends on the listener....what their relationship to the subject matter is; how they've dealt with it; etc.

(4) Depressing effect - the impact of the writing/material [which may or may not have been written by a depressed writer; and may or may not on the listener has a depressing effect, i.e. they feel depressed while/after listening to the work, as a direct result of their listening to the work. This varies greatly with the listener. For some people, listening to happy music can cause them to feel depressed [so for them the happy music is depressing material], i.e. the example given by Teresa Irene, as well as music that is "depressing" for a listener simply because it reminds them of times gone by, a love lost, of someone who has since died, or whatever. It can be a joyous song, yet "be depressing" for that particular listener.

None of these definitions have any bearing on Leonard's state of perfection [which he has not, nor will ever, achieve....period] or lack of it. How his music is perceived depends of many things and is highly personal to the listener.

It seems to me that these terms are becoming interchanged in their application. This is how I'm using them.

~Lizzytysh

For me, personally, Leonard's songs have never had a depressing effect on me, so in regard to that fact, I say "Leonard's music is not depressing." However, they may well have/have had that impact on you [or not] and that's okay, that's fine. We're simply different.

[chuckles the clown]

This is the most depressing post you have ever written.

[Linda]

Great! lively discussion going on.
Partisan, your opinion of TNS was rather fast I thought. Did you just toss that album aside or have you listened to it afew times and changed your opinion any?

I don't believe anyone can understand depression unless they have been there, also what works for one doesn't work for all. Depressed people do seek each other out simply for the understanding.

Are you guys a little jealous perhaps? To be 67 and have ladies of all ages, around the world in love with you. It has got to make the rest of you a little envious. Actually it could be somewhat of a curse, I suppose, and probably has been for him. Poor guy! Liz and I discussed that before. We didn't agree!

I don't worship the guy, but his music is lovely.

[chuckles the clown]

From depression to jealousy. Only a woman could make that leap.