leonardcohenforum.com

I think you are right Lizzytysch, about reality, and everyone seeing Leonard through there own eyes. Wonderful. Do you think Leonard sees us through a reality of his own? I am not good at putting my thoughts down on paper. But still I try

I don't think any of us are Sally. Nice to see you here.

Hi Sally....I believe I got your message, so it seems to me you expressed yourself well.

There's a movie, Waking Life, that makes the different, individual realities being a matter of perception[s] really well. There's a site on it, with script info [i.e. synopsis of the different scenes, each describing a different "reality"]. Very interesting stuff....

That's a very interesting notion to consider, how Leonard sees us. I would think he would have us categorized in his own fashion, i.e. basic groups that we fit into in his eyes. Of course, who knows what those groupings might be? It appears he's also [perhaps moreso than many other performers] willing to consider us individually, as well. "A Day In The Life Of Leonard Cohen".....what must that be like. I think it was I Am A Hotel, in which he did that, somewhat, from that perspective. Intriguing to imagine how truly looking out through his eyes/mind/emotions must be like.

I liked that "verse" that I read about him wanting to see the world through "your" [the woman with him in the verse] eyes, and something about looking out the door, perhaps. As I read it, I imagined them in bed and that her view of and slant on the world was so much more positive and magical than his that he was willing to defer to hers. Somehow, I imagined her as Rebecca. It may have been the poem that included the barking dog downstairs. I know I'm being a bit "obtuse" here...but the details are sketchy. I only read it once. Liked it, but obviously didn't memorize it.

Yes, he has certainly imparted his personal pain through his songs, hasn't he. Coleman Barks's interpretation of one of Rumi's ghazals [poems] has a line, "I want a howling hurt. Half-hearted holding back, well-enough getting by just won't do. We alchemists look for words that will heat up and change...." I really shouldn't put quotes around that, as it's paraphrased and I'll Edit it to being exactly, when I get home. However, it reminds me of Leonard. In various ways, his has been a howling hurt. It seems that that's what you are feeling [picking up on] when you listen and the reason you need to take breaks.

Lizzytysh

I belive an artist/poet/singer/songwriter etc is a messenger of sorts to bring to the rest of us a mood, an idea, a story, a peice of 'art' - so for me I dont really care too much what they are thinking in their personal life, why they wrote a certain song ( or imho why they THINK they wrote a song ) I think that music and art etc come from another level so to speak and the artists are those that tune into that realm and bring it forth for us all to have our own expereinces with it.

Of course they use their own life to be open to this- but I just see the whole area as one that becomes non personal ( about the artist and their life ) and more about what it means to the listener. I remember when I the fortune to meet Bob Dylan for instance, one of the things I saw first hand with him ( and I thought this showed he was pretty smart ) was that he would get annoyed when people whould try to analyse his songs and certainly if they asked him 'what does this mean " what were you going through here ?' he would smirk and say I dont know- figure it out for yourself. he knew that although the songs( some ) may have come from his life that ultimatley that was NOt what they were about .Do you see LC different in this ?

Oh yes and another singer songwriter I met personally was John Denver ( I am not showing off just making a point ) Now his music was generally happy and light yet as a person I found him troubled and angry in many ways - so was the music from his life ? or was it expressing just one part ? or maybe what he wished it could be ? or was it a gift from the gods for others ?

How does Leonard compare to this idea - if at all ?

POndering

Love Irene Teresa

Dang!! That was me- yet I came in under 'guest' - still learning

Hi Sally:

I've located the ghazal [per interpretation of Rumi by Coleman Barks] for proper quoting. It expresses for me what Leonard's writing represents:

"There's courage involved / If you want to become truth /
There's a broken, open place / in a lover / where are those qualities of bravery and sharp compassion in this group. / What's the use of old and frozen thought / I want a howling hurt / This is not a treasury where gold is stored / This is for copper / We alchemists look for talent that can heat up / and change. / Lukewarm won't do / half-hearted holding back, well enough getting by / Not here. / I want a howling hurt / Old and frozen thought won't do / half-hearted holding back, well enough getting by / Not here."

[Forgot about the "quote" option, and can only get it to go at the end of my quotation. Oh well.]

When I first heard the above, I felt it represented Leonard's commitment to become truth in and through his songs and poetry. No old and frozen thought, anywhere, that I've seen in them. No half-hearted holding back, no well-enough getting by, no lukewarm. Sweating every word, creating that which can heat up and change. A howling hurt. Courage....Lots of it, despite some people's interpretation of "In My Secret Life." Allowing us to see that broken, open place. Sharp compassion in his songs. Truth in his songs. Bravery in his expression of himself, his own faults and weaknesses. His priority seems to be the alchemical reactions, process, and change. He brings the heat that makes it possible.

Hi Irene:

I saw that same kind of reaction [though he didn't show annoyance, it seemed to me a registering of his fatigue with these kinds of questions, when Stina kept trying to get him to explain meanings and his state of mind related to his songs ~ in her Paris interview with him]. I agree that songs and music come from another place, another plane and that some artists may struggle [as Leonard seems to] with interpreting the message appropriately and correctly, while others simply record it [as Dylan seems to do with his 15-minute+ songs]. I guess for some songs of Leonard's that a few people don't like, we could say, "Don't kill the messenger...."

I remain interested in their lives that intertwine [some moreso than others, and Leonard's being one that seems very much so, although the divine guidance is just as clear]. I like your "or imho why they THINK they wrote a song"....makes a good point....the unwitting messenger.

Lizzytysh

Thank you, Lizzytysch and Kush and Linda,

What beautiful thoughts you have. And you express them so well. Have any of you written your own peotry? I think a peotry thread would be so good to have. A lot of wisdom could be imparted there. Not just famous poets or well known poets - but your unpublished peots could post there too. "Gifts from the gods"

Thanks, Sally, for your compliments to all of us. No poetry forthcoming from this one, however. I believe I can count on one hand all the poems I've written in my entire life. My first at age 8, "Time for tarry, time for play / None have I, this busy day." Had I known more, I'd have titled it, "Ode to a Workaholic," the title nearly as long as the poem. Not exactly destined for greatness. My others are a bit more complex , but then the bar is set pretty low for that judgement. Bottom line.....I don't write poetry. However, I do agree that a poetry thread here would be nice. Or are people suggesting Jarkko add a whole section for it, however that would be done.

Yes, gifts from the G..ds is true....poetry tends to take you there, or at least opens the doorway and leads you to the path.

Lizzytysh

Yeah, Irene....that happened to me too.....ended up "coming back in" as a Guest....after I mistakenly hit the Logout icon [or whatever it's called]. Then, later, I couldn't Edit it like I wanted to, as I'd come back in under my name [realizing my error]. I'd have had to Logout again and then returned again, but I questioned whether the system would recognize me as the same Guest, so just let it go....still learning.

Lizzytysh

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF LEONARD COHEN


3:30 A.M. Somewhere a dog barks ... in China

3:35 A.M. Stumbles out of bed - stubs toe in the dark ...pain ... hurt ... howling hurt

4:00 A.M. Looks out the door ... sees world through her eyes ... positively magical

4:01 A.M. Depressed again

4:02 A.M. Begins meditation ... half-hearted holding back -- so only a quarter Lotus position ( i.e. toes crossed)

4:03 A.M. Stops meditation in order to sweat every word

5:00 A.M. Time for breakfast ... Corn Flakes and Red Needles ... has alchemical reaction

6:00 A.M. Naptime

11:00 A.M. Goes to the Mall incognito ... buys 56 copies of TNS

1:00 P.M. Naptime

3:00 P.M. Prepares six dozen home-made capuccino popsicles...What a hassle

5:00 P.M. Tries to be brave and compose song with elements of sharp compassion ... just too difficult

6:00 P.M. Has another picture of himself taken with bare feet and those visually pleasing high arches

6:30 P.M. Logs on to Leonard Cohen Files forum and immediately begins putting everyone into categories

6:50 P.M. Makes prank phone call to Bob Dylan

7:00 P.M. And so to bed!

8:00 P.M. Awakened by those annoying intermittent silences...Mildly complains

8:02 P.M. Embraces Crickets

Great humour, Ed....regardless of at whose expense, I laughed out loud. Suspect you're not on target , but since when has that been a prereq of satire.

Lizzytysh

EDIT: He does have great arches, doesn't he ......being a Pisces, I'm interested in that sort of thing [not to be confused with a "ff"].

Dear Mr. Ed,

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

I got all the the references and jokes except for the 6:00 P.M. entry. Did I miss something?

Dear Guest,

The 6:00 P.M. entry is a gloss on an obscure, arcane text known only to scholars . I will give you the cross reference: Go to Various Positions at Leonard Cohen.com. Proceed to the Canada's Best Dressed Thread (June 2, 2002) third post. There you will find the text in all of its chiropodistical glory.

I prefer my thoughts on that one, him sitting on the edge of the bed in a suit, barefooted.
Arcane? maybe. Scholars? people with too much time on their hands.

Dear Mr. Ed, Your information about Leonard's schedule was interesting but you can do better! For example, how did he fill his time between 3:35 and 4:00? Was all this time spent nursing his pain and possibly applying a bandage? Two hours at the mall-- it wouldn't have taken so long to buy 56 copies of TNS. What other shops did he visit? What did he buy? I am sure you can expand on other items as well. We now know he has corn flakes and Red Needles for breakfast, but what does he have for lunch and dinner? Snacks? Please continue sharing your insider knowledge.