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Figure of speech.

"our employees (with health insurance + benefits) and our annual salary" doesnt sound half as good as "our slaves and our gold".

jurica wrote:people, don't wash your hands. none of us is innocent.

Jurica this statement is the most realistic to me, unless, anybody seems ready to admit it, it is more easy to pointed others as trouble makers, so the messenger is shot 99.9% of the time, when trying to say the beginning of everything is the individual, the simple reality of what he can do right now.

In that regard I like very much the song about illumination in DH.

You seem to be an expert at point the flaws of USA.

I would like to hear you about Russian nuclear problem. The way they wanted to use this energy, the way they make the whole planet polluted with Tchernobyl, and what they are doing - or let say NOT doing - about the cimetery of nuclear submarine that is a menace for ocean ecosystem.

Thanks.

, Lightning and Kush. True.

Do you think he might be ~ at all ~ referring back to our literal slaves, as well, in the sense of other countries saying to us, "What room do you have to talk?" I can't imagine he'd refer to our pioneer Gold Rush ~ but, certainly, I'd think to our country's wealth, via the Gold Standard.

Jurica, regarding Morning Glory I forgot to add, but I meant it : "and where we are". This is why I am asking you these questions, and not to nag you. I hope you will answer me some time or another.

I am not so certain now if you made a joke, Lightning, if not, well what can I say? I truly though it was.

Kush "doesnt sound half as good as "our slaves and our gold"." and I would say "half correct".

In a society like ours, based on exploitation of the working force of some by others, the ideology of the dominents always tend to induce feeling of guilt in those who are exploited (if it is, it is because something goes wrong with them, they deserve to be used - and if they do not agree, they are called dangerous to the society and...I make a short portrait, accordingly I stop here with this and I continue) and to think and say that their interets (interest of the dominents) are the interest of humanity.

Besides, it pictures the archaic religious wars.

I feel so like in a sci-fi movie, about this. I feel like if I am in the Apes Planet. Who would have think, just 10 years ago that we will go into a religious war in 2003/4?

Short song, so many meanings...

Slaves are employees? I don't think figure of speech can be so easy deciphered. I will say more like "our slaves" = our slaves! From historical slavery to modern "slaves" of globalization.

Tchocolatl wrote:You seem to be an expert at point the flaws of USA.

I would like to hear you about Russian nuclear problem. The way they wanted to use this energy, the way they make the whole planet polluted with Tchernobyl, and what they are doing - or let say NOT doing - about the cimetery of nuclear submarine that is a menace for ocean ecosystem.

ouch, that's even more painful one than the US.
i don't know many Russians personaly (my cousin is married to one, and that's it), but it's farely obvious that they are a great nation of great talents (mathematicians, poets, musicians and such), so it's an incredible fact that they managed to create the most dangerous, as Midnight would call it, Empire in the history of Earth. you could always count on America to be too afraid of WWIII back in the cold war, but not the Russians. they were more like Chinese or Japanese in their regard to human life, and they were very hard for us to comprehend... so we had every reason to fear them.
now things have changed...
or have they?
they seemed to be very happy (politicians, of course) that Bush was re-elected. obviously. the rest of the world will have other concerns on their hands rather than jiving them about submarines, wasted fonds they got from EU, good-old lying and ideologizing in their inner politics...

then i think about Russian artists, and i wonder. can it be that marxism had such a loud spokesmen as Majakovski, and barely any reaction??? well, it didn't take anti-marxism to send a Nobel prize winner Solzenicin to Gulag. post-marxism was quite enough.

and now we're supposed to belive that they have changed? by substituting KGB with mafia, communism with sorry excuse for democracy, military state with anarchy?

there are some Russians on this forum, i should expect them to elaborate their possition. from what i can see and hear here, things are not going anywhere.

it's probably the way it has to be... the most powerful nations must have the dumbest leaders, mustn't they? who of a sane mind would build nuclear missiles and large and expensive army, while he could grow corn and feed his people?

the world is such a shitty place. it's a wonder we can even feed ourselves (as Dylan put it). the more i think about it, the more it seems like it's simply in human nature. we're not as simple as a horse, cat or a Volcano (i may have misspeled - i mean a species from Star Treck that always uses logic, the most popular being Spock). we tend to react more to our inner fears and illusions than to logic.

what can we do about it? please, someone? much smater people than me have tried to illuminate it to other people, but they just didn't see. how can it be that we all know we shoul do something (for example stop polluting our homes), but we do it nonetheless!?!?!?

Well Mr. Sakic.....I'm sure you know that not everybody agrees with your opinion on globalization. I sure don't...so we'll leave it at that.

As for the rest if it weren't so damn cold here I'd go and have an ice cream. I've never known a man or woman having an ice cream and not be happy with the world.

You know, Kush ~ you really make a good point. Maybe I'll stop and get one myself, on my way home.

jurica wrote:[the world is such a shitty place. it's a wonder we can even feed ourselves (as Dylan put it).

Or as Leonard Cohen put it :

This morning I woke up again
I thank my Lord for that
The world is such a pigpen
That I have to wear a hat
I love the Lord I praise the Lord
I do the Lord forgive
I hope I won't be sorry
For allowing Him to live

But it was in a moment of despear, this photo of the reality he took.

the more i think about it, the more it seems like it's simply in human nature. we're not as simple as a horse, cat or a Volcano (i may have misspeled - i mean a species from Star Treck that always uses logic, the most popular being Spock). we tend to react more to our inner fears and illusions than to logic.

Vulcano. Mr. Spock was half human (mom) half Vucano (dad) and therefor had emotions. He raises only one eyebrow when perplexed - his human side maybe (joke). Accordingly (being half human) he cried at the fourth show. So that was setting the personnage. He was often teared between his Vulcano side and Terrian side (like many of us are with our logical side and emotional side - pretty well represented with Mr. Spock). Star Treck was making people think about themselves, psychologically sociologicaly and socially.

we tend to react more to our inner fears and illusions than to logic.

True. According to some studies, even when we have forget about an initial emotional shock we are living it in the body. So the influence is great and the more uncounscious it is the greater influence it may have, I think.

what can we do about it? please, someone? much smater people than me have tried to illuminate it to other people, but they just didn't see. how can it be that we all know we shoul do something (for example stop polluting our homes), but we do it nonetheless!?!?!?

Smart? You are very found of intelligence, aren't you? But there are many intelligences : intellectual, emotional, social. The sole intellect with all his power will never do the job alone. Ask Mr. Spock

Ah!... I would have a lot to say about this, I wonder if it is the place, however.

So I just add that when we will be more conscious of the game we are playing and mistaken for the truth, our human world may be a better place to live. But. You know.

I stop here. Thank you for having answered.

Lizzytysh there are days that I wish I was living in warmer climes...
May I recommend a terrific malaysian concoction called 'Ice Kacang' that that came to my attention this summer. It is unbelievable....quite simply Ice cream of the Gods.
Any ol' malaysian place should have it. 'Penang' is the chain restaurent across most of US i think, though you'd probably have to be close to a big city.

Looks like I should've had one when I was in New York. I've never heard of the ice cream or the place ~ I'll try to remember both, for when I get closer to a big city. Your description makes me want to try it.

Kush, my opinion about globalization? Did I miss something before?
I hardly have any opinion about globalization. I just ment to say that when LC says "our slaves" maybe it means something like "modern role of USA in the world today", or at least as some people (be it even fundamentalists) see it. "Employees", that sounds to literate.

I am trying to hardly have thought about anything at all. Trying to be free.
Regards

about 'slaves and gold'. i agree that he meant what Tom said 'slaves from history to todays globalisation slaves', but i think that he meant it in sense of irrony. like 'yeah, they think that people around the world are slaves, but it's not true'. it fits my oppinions on The Future album. i've stated before: i like the songs, but i politicaly dissagree with them.

and just so it is clear: Kush may have thought that Tom and i share simillar wievs on politics. we are friends and respect each other's oppinion, but in many subjects our views are quite different.

i do have some ideas, but as we live in the world we live in, and there's no hope for sudden new morning with all the people happy in free world (well, i'm heading to become post-marxist, it seems), i am trying to set my mand free of anything. you get sick talking with all possible kind of people about war, politics, tito, milosevic, bush, globalization, mmf, bush, eu, iraq, bush, etc.

so there are days when i act like it's 1968, but maybe this would be better for my soul:

Tom Sakic wrote:I am trying to hardly have thought about anything at all. Trying to be free.

that's my platform

Regarding this line "our women unveiled, our slaves and our gold" (short song so ma... etc ) I want to stress the archaic point of view I came with.

"OUR women, OUR slaves and our GOLD. All old civilization notions. Like Byron put it in the "fuck fuck fuck" subject above, there was ancient times where women had not much "rights" then slaves.

I think right now of the craddle of our civilization : Ancient Greece. Only citizens where part of the democratie (and here Jurica, I make you a wink because democratie had this meaning, much more near of what you said about people not able to think by themseves (i do not agree, but this is not the subject here) and not ours. In this time wars where so to speak part of the economy. But at least the social justice was that the ones who decided to do it where the ones who did it.