Linda, that link was not to discuss TNS per se, but never mind. Since you ask that was written after 2 listens i think, or it may have only been one. During the time that thread was running i did give it further listens as people exorted me to do. There is some good stuff there, but to call what is accompanying it music is a stretch to say the least. Read the thread further than my first post and you will get a better understanding, i have said most of it there. Funnily enough i tried putting it on again in the last few days, i tend to try once a month. I still think the music to be appaling. I still wish Sharon was not singing. Mostly though the effect i get is of great sadness. It is glaringly obvious that the voice on that album could not tour. But i may be wrong. I certainly hope so. The thing that tends to give me most pleasure in life is being wrong. It just doesn't happen enough, but i guess most people find that if they consider it. It is more a commentary on human nature i suppose. Well this has gone on far too long, way past my usual limit.
p.
Why do Cohen fans seem to suffer from depression?
Ya got that right, Chuckles! 
>>>>>The thing that tends to give me most pleasure in life is being wrong. It just doesn't happen enough,
Wow !! I never would have guessed.
I actually went back and read some of that thread and I still think TNS is a masterpiece (minus That don't make it junk) as are almost all of LCs albums. He is a consummate artiste although I quibble with some of his songs. (For contrast, I have equal respect for Dylan but am not blind to the fact that Dylan often writes/records a lot of junk) However, I don't know the man and do not find an objective perspective of him on this forum. As somebody said "An artist must live in a tower of glass" - well, this certainly not a site of glass.
Unlike yourself Partisan...I do frequently find myself to be wrong and constantly update myself as new info./data comes through.
Wow !! I never would have guessed.
I actually went back and read some of that thread and I still think TNS is a masterpiece (minus That don't make it junk) as are almost all of LCs albums. He is a consummate artiste although I quibble with some of his songs. (For contrast, I have equal respect for Dylan but am not blind to the fact that Dylan often writes/records a lot of junk) However, I don't know the man and do not find an objective perspective of him on this forum. As somebody said "An artist must live in a tower of glass" - well, this certainly not a site of glass.
Unlike yourself Partisan...I do frequently find myself to be wrong and constantly update myself as new info./data comes through.
"And talking of criticism...Is criticism of LC allowed on this board or is that not appreciated ?? " - Kush
"I actually went back and read some of that thread and I still think TNS is a masterpiece (minus That don't make it junk) as are almost all of LCs albums. He is a consummate artiste although I quibble with some of his songs." - Kush
I'll let everyone else try and work out what you are trying to get at. Even God himself makes the odd mistake, so just how differently do you really see Leonard?
As for being wrong, thanks for the wonderful example. However you failed to give it any real consideration. For example do you think there will be a terrorist attack in Israel in the next month? Would you like to be wrong? Try giving it a little more thought.
p.
"I actually went back and read some of that thread and I still think TNS is a masterpiece (minus That don't make it junk) as are almost all of LCs albums. He is a consummate artiste although I quibble with some of his songs." - Kush
I'll let everyone else try and work out what you are trying to get at. Even God himself makes the odd mistake, so just how differently do you really see Leonard?
As for being wrong, thanks for the wonderful example. However you failed to give it any real consideration. For example do you think there will be a terrorist attack in Israel in the next month? Would you like to be wrong? Try giving it a little more thought.
p.
I'll do it myself....
What I'm getting at is that I absolutely love every one of his albums (including the much maligned DOALM). But I also happen to disagree with SOME of his ideas whether in interviews or in his songs and recently I have also begun to question atleast SOME of his writing style. My ideas change with time and I also try to keep a balanced perspective.
You definitely need to take Personality 101.
That's all for now..have a great day.
What I'm getting at is that I absolutely love every one of his albums (including the much maligned DOALM). But I also happen to disagree with SOME of his ideas whether in interviews or in his songs and recently I have also begun to question atleast SOME of his writing style. My ideas change with time and I also try to keep a balanced perspective.
You definitely need to take Personality 101.
That's all for now..have a great day.
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rocksoff
Hey you guys. Now this is what I call a real interchange of ideas. But tell me, and be honest, do you all admit to having suffered from real depression at some time in your lives, and has LC and his music, poetry helped you thru it, or not. I personally love LC's work, but I never called upon it to help me when I have been down. But IMO I never suffered from lasting real deep depression, and my mood was usually related to life changes ans circumstances that were open to change, rather than to endogenous factors.
I think may be you are missing the point of LC`s music and verse.
If the truth be known we all suffer from depression and only those strong enough will do something about it be it medical or other in their own way.
LC`s music makes us listen to the depth of the words and to understand and THINK which is something most of us are guilty of speaking before we do this ..so perhaps when you listen next time you will face up to reality and realise that we are only normal whatever that may be!!!!
If the truth be known we all suffer from depression and only those strong enough will do something about it be it medical or other in their own way.
LC`s music makes us listen to the depth of the words and to understand and THINK which is something most of us are guilty of speaking before we do this ..so perhaps when you listen next time you will face up to reality and realise that we are only normal whatever that may be!!!!
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Everett Wade
hmmmm. I don't think LC fans are neccasarily depressed-- it's just LC's music attracts depressed people more than some other music because, whether or not it is depressing music, it has definetly not got the light-hearted shallow feel of most popular music these days-- Even sad or depressing songs on the radio are often very shallow, more like a temper tantrum thrown by a teen who is lucky enough to be signed to a big record label and who is 1making millions a year 
. For me, if I'm sad, I can't really relate to that... when I'm sad, it's just easier to relate to Cohen's music, because you can feel that he has actually been there before.
Ev
. For me, if I'm sad, I can't really relate to that... when I'm sad, it's just easier to relate to Cohen's music, because you can feel that he has actually been there before.Ev
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rocksoff
Seems to me that LC has always been a little too much obsessed with sex depression and death, two themes reflected in a lot of his output.
In this regard, I just wonder whether in the last few years his output has been his very best, and whether this may reflect the possibility that LC has sublimated his sexual frutrations - these would likely have been due to his enforced abstinence from sexual activity during his Zen retreat years - tranforming his resulting depression, caused by sexual frustration, into creative song writing. Perhaps his libido is not what it used to be, but this have the benefir of leaving him more time to create better songs.
One rider to the above hypothesis: I assume that Zen members on Mt. Baldy desist from any form of sexual activity, including, of course, autoeroticim, and homosexuality. Or are the members permitted an occasional night on the town, say, in the red light districts? If hey are, then my hyposthese gets blown right out the window, I believe.
In this regard, I just wonder whether in the last few years his output has been his very best, and whether this may reflect the possibility that LC has sublimated his sexual frutrations - these would likely have been due to his enforced abstinence from sexual activity during his Zen retreat years - tranforming his resulting depression, caused by sexual frustration, into creative song writing. Perhaps his libido is not what it used to be, but this have the benefir of leaving him more time to create better songs.
One rider to the above hypothesis: I assume that Zen members on Mt. Baldy desist from any form of sexual activity, including, of course, autoeroticim, and homosexuality. Or are the members permitted an occasional night on the town, say, in the red light districts? If hey are, then my hyposthese gets blown right out the window, I believe.
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Auto N. Homo-Hetero
Too much sex, depression and death? Impossible.
Dear Rocksoff, Not one and not the other, I'm afraid, but quite the opposite.
I once heard the Dhali Lama say that they are human like the rest of us and have the same feelings. He said he sees and beautiful woman and has the same response as any other hot blooded male but he has to think against his needs. So you can make or think of that what you like. I should think the retreat was for lot deeper reasons that what perhaps you are thinking and that he has finally found himself in life!We may never know.
Last edited by smile on Mon Aug 05, 2002 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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rocksoff
Dear Smile:
Re the Deli Lamba: I was wondering whether the Deli Lamba owns fast food Kebab eateries, as our local kebab joint bears the same name. The Doners they cook there are really superb.
You said that: "he sees and beautiful woman and has the same response as any other hot blooded male but he has to think against his needs"
I have always wondered why the Deli sports an eternal wide smile. Now I may have the answer: he's suffering excruciating pain from trying to supress his sexual needs. Of couse, there is also the possibility that he is simply gratifying himself undeneath his cloak, thus accounting for his
Re the Deli Lamba: I was wondering whether the Deli Lamba owns fast food Kebab eateries, as our local kebab joint bears the same name. The Doners they cook there are really superb.
You said that: "he sees and beautiful woman and has the same response as any other hot blooded male but he has to think against his needs"
I have always wondered why the Deli sports an eternal wide smile. Now I may have the answer: he's suffering excruciating pain from trying to supress his sexual needs. Of couse, there is also the possibility that he is simply gratifying himself undeneath his cloak, thus accounting for his