Announcement of the Nov 27 concert in Phnom Penh

[jmudrick]

Jeff

Do you promise to play nothing but his music the whole night the Garage so we can cry our eyes out and comiserate? If so I will certainly be there...

Have nothing else to do in Phnom Penh and no desire to visit the genocide museum as I am depressed enough

Karen

Of course. But I'm hoping if we start right off with a pitcher of Red Needles we can completely skip the crying part.

[Harriet175]

I think LC himself is to blame for this fiasco. I believe it was his idea to play in Phnom Penh as he probably hasn't been there and thought this location a novel idea at the time.
I cannot believe that AEG alone would have come up with this location in Asia.
Worse still is that he has chosen not to offer a proper apology to his loyal fans.

...it seems so obvious that it was Leonard Cohen’s idea: i bet he must be totally keen on seeing a Cambodian hotel room from the inside, for a change, instead of just staying in European, American or Australian hotels since nearly 3 years. (= ironic answer to the above quote - sorry for my dry irony - i did feel concerned/unhappy after reading this, which felt rather insulting to me...)

although i was told by some kind forum members not to make comments any more,
i am puzzled that some may NOT see that the tone of some of the accusing speculations and reading things into people is indeed bitter and...hurtful.
...while we do not fully know...while waiting for a (hopefully satisfying) explanation.

...i guess “your vision is right, my vision is wrong, i’m sorry for smudging the air” with my tongue...
Nicole.

Now the forum is more quiet,
but who will confess?
Is it true he betrayed us
is the answer really yes?
Then please read the list
of the crimes that are his,
who will ask for the mercy
that you love to decline?

And thank you, thank you
for doing your duty,
You keepers of truth,
you guardians of beauty.
Your vision is right,
their vision is wrong,
who has to be sorry for smudging
the air ...?

who has to die
for which lies in whose voice?

[GaryP27]

Smugness is not pretty Nicole.

[khayya]

Thank You, Harriet/Nicole for your kind words. Even if it all went wrong - I hope people are forgiving by their nature and just "let it all go by" holding their love of Leonard and his music intact in their hearts no matter who is right and who isn't. Even if there ARE some lies in some voices involved, it's never black or white and I feel terrified to read how easily anger may be turned towards those we love most.

[margaret]

I think LC himself is to blame for this fiasco. I believe it was his idea to play in Phnom Penh as he probably hasn't been there and thought this location a novel idea at the time.
I cannot believe that AEG alone would have come up with this location in Asia.
Worse still is that he has chosen not to offer a proper apology to his loyal fans.

...it seems so obvious that it was Leonard Cohen’s idea: i bet he must be totally keen on seeing a Cambodian hotel room from the inside, for a change, instead of just staying in European, American or Australian hotels since nearly 3 years.

From my recollection it was NOT Leonard's idea, but Chris Minko, who, in his position as the mouthpiece of The Mekong Sessions approached LC and his management and appealed to Leonard's compassionate nature to appear in Cambodia. He persuaded them that he could virtually guarantee a full house and raise a lot of money for his charity in the process.

[lizzytysh]

It's been so hard trying not to comment here... but it's really impossible to believe that those who are the most vehement, rancourous, and villifying toward Leonard could be longtime fans. Yet, for what? It's so easy to stand on the outside when you're LOOKING for someone to blame and start throwing mud at those most visible. The longtime fans would have a far more likely inclination toward extending forgiveness and understanding and willingness to think positively as to what might be behind this cancellation.

It would be far more likely of Leonard/his management to remain outside of the publicly-blaming mode, even if the local promoter were wrong down to the letter. There was a graphic lesson we saw/learned from on that when serious and extreme theft occurred in Leonard's life and how he handled it. It was astonishing. 'It sure put a dent in my mood' ~ now there's some serious understatement, absent of [rightful] blaming. Other comments he made later showed that he still feels love and caring for the person responsible for his loss, as well as her parents. That was and remains some serious, personal forgiveness related to money.

The hyperbolic descriptions of the projections & pure guesses of why and how this concert came to be planned and scheduled reflect poorly only on their writers. If it was Leonard's idea to do a concert there... wonderful. I can understand why he would want to, especially if proceeds would go to charity. If it was someone else's idea and Leonard was approached in the way that Margaret recollects, it's wonderful and even more understandable. Everything else remains unknown and people are venting and trying to settle on where their blame is to be placed.

Since I had no plans to attend, one might say I don't have a dog in this fight. Yet, I do and his name is INTEGRITY, INTEGRITY of Leonard Cohen and Management. INTEGRITY comes from a long line of pedigree breeding, and one can witness it anytime, anywhere, at any concert or interaction. Robert Kory's INTEGRITY is unassailable. If any of us were to attempt even one hour of Robert Kory's job, we would immediately realize the overwhelming and daunting complexities he must deal with and resolve daily in the 360-degree sphere that he functions in as Leonard's management. Leonard's INTEGRITY in all of this isn't even up for consideration, yet if it is to be, it is unassailable, as well. It's there, it's solid, it's pure. He would NEVER involve himself in any scheme or plan to deceive or rip off fans. Robert Kory has consistently demonstrated his good will and good faith with Leonard and Leonard's fans, at every turn.

Something clearly went wrong with these plans, and I would be personally devastated by such losses, too. Yet, ticket monies were refunded immediately, and as Geoff has noted, how much CAN be given to hundreds of fans for recompense. As nice a thought as it is, it's absurd to expect plane fare to be. I didn't look for my extra [expensive] hotel night or the upcharge for my flight schedule change to be. It is what it is and [without meaning to sound cavalier or dismissive], if this is the worst to happen in one's life, it will have been a blessed life, indeed.

I can easily project that Leonard and Robert are feeling horrible about this... and even, moreso, if some of the toxic words written here get back to them. Sometimes, some things happen totally beyond and out of one's own control. This situation appears to me to be solidly within that realm. The ONLY exception to that would be Leonard's being ill [still a matter out of anyone's control], and that dreadful news would emerge soon enough. Prayerfully, no one will have to live with the sheer mean-spiritedness and meanness of their thoughts and words. Hopefully, some will do their best, and succeed, in approaching this situation with a more generous spirit. Leonard Cohen remains Leonard Cohen. No one who truly loves him has had their feelings toward him tainted by experiencing this situation directly, or by reading about it. I don't know and can't pretend to know what the situation really is. What I do know is that neither Leonard Cohen nor Robert Kory are to blame.


~ Lizzy

[gallina]

"No one who truly loves him has had their feelings toward him tainted by experiencing this situation directly, or by reading about it."

Thank you Lizzy, your words are so true and touching.

[GaryP27]

Lizzy, first, if people were not dedicated fans they would hardly be so upset. There's something really not quite so pleasant about seeing people here with a list of a dozen concerts they've attended at the end of their posts telling many who had hoped to attend ONE in their lifetime that they have no right to their anger and disappointment. You can simply have no idea of how much this chance meant to those people. And I mean that. I do not believe you have an idea.

Yes, I am sure any of the disappointed ones would also be more philosophical if it were you who had missed the concert and not them.

And really, claiming Leonard Cohen and his team not being capable of human fallibility and approaching sainthood, while entirely expected in a fan forum, is a little beyond the pale. From my reading of his words, in poetry, literature and song, he has blundered through life and made the occasional mistake just like the rest of us. That's part of why his music touches us.

I don't think I have read one single post here where anyone has demanded Cohen and his team refund their airfare and hotel tickets, so I wonder why some of those criticizing their anger like to invent this claim that they have. But it certainly rubs salt in the wound to be going on a trip that is only reminding us of why we are there. It rubs even more salt in the wound for others to think it's all about the money. No, it isn't all about the money, but everyone involved in this concert KNEW that almost no one attending this show would be living in the immediate vicinity. At these prices 90% of the audience would be flying in. And this is not because they are hugely wealthy.

Allow people their emotions. Perhaps many of them know they are raging a little unfairly, but that's what venting is. Nothing will take the role Cohen's music has played in my life away from me, but I can understand those who do not feel like listening to his music today or reading concert reports from Australia right now. I am among them.

Here's the fact: given how rare this opportunity was, I will probably not be in the same room as LC, probably not see him perform live, in this entire lifetime. Yes, allow me disappointment and even anger.

You wrote: "It's so easy to stand on the outside when you're LOOKING for someone to blame ..." and then went on to accuse others of not being as devoted a fan as you and then decide that the FANS are to blame. Not honorable. And certainly ironic.

What some of you are doing is uncomfortably like telling someone grieving "You have no right to be upset and rage at the heavens, because we all die, and MY loved one is still alive". That is uncomfortable to read, and hardly reflects well on the writer.

Frankly, in these circumstances, an understanding of people's feelings and an expression of sympathy, which some have kindly offered, would seem to be a more appropriate response than posts along the lines of "if you were a true believer you would not think anyone could have made a mistake". If Leonard hears about this disappointment and feels a little upset to have let down so hard many who love his work so much, that would only be entirely reasonable and acceptable.

[lizzytysh]

You've made some valid points, Gary. My own posting ought to have been more complete and acknowledged the disappointment and anger those who planned to attend are feeling. Disappointment and anger and even rage are natural responses to hurt. Hurt is what you are and it's being processed through anger. I didn't deal with your and others emotions when I responded, as I had read so many postings where people had expressed their empathy and acknowledged the emotional aspects of this situation; however, the anger and the rage being directed at Leonard and at Robert. So did the derisive sarcastic imaginary situations that are downright insulting.

You do not know the real situation, and neither do I; but you are presuming that you do, and are continuing in that vein. [My word "you" is in the collective vein, as meaning you and others, to avoid keeping using all the extra words there.] We were deeply disappointed and in Red Rocks, when we had to add an additional two nights to expensive hotel bills, meals, upcharges for flight changes; but we didn't rage at Leonard and make accusations at Leonard, Robert, or anyone else. Granted, we GOT to see Leonard perform... but not all of us... and those people had to fly back home 'empty-handed' ~ not even a cd. One came from and returned to Australia, without a note of music.

Granted, too, that this may have been your/some's ONLY opportunity to see Leonard. For that possible fact, I'm deeply sorry and my heart is with you... the same as my heart has been with others, in the Hawaii cancellation. Still, I did not see the venomous comments being made when that happened as I'm seeing here when this happened. The difference is in liking a person, but not liking their action[s]. Here, I'm seeing the baby thrown out with the bath water. You didn't like what happened, so now you're making all kinds of villifying remarks about Leonard, his ethics, and his intentions. THAT is totally not appropriate. Leonard does not arrange his tours. His management does. His management doesn't frivilously make concert arrangements.

SOMETHING went awry. There seems to be a fair amount of information indicating that Cambodia is pretty corrupt. For me, the most obvious conclusion with all of this is that corruption in some form or fashion impeded on the forthright and straight-up plans of Leonard Cohen's management for a concert in Cambodia. Maybe it wasn't the Mekong Sessions. Maybe it was the King or the 'King.' Maybe it was the venue itself. Maybe it was the ticket sellers. I can't claim to understand how corruption functions, much less pervasive corruption. All I know is that here Leonard and Robert are being unfairly thrown into the fire of culpability. If someone DID make a mistake on this end... what might that mistake have been??

You may be a dedicated fan of Leonard's music. But what I'm seeing doesn't indicate a dedicate fan of Leonard. You're not giving the benefit of any doubt to him and you're dragging him into an arena, the responsibility for which has been delegated to others. Leonard shows up. Yes, he would have agreed to the idea of Cambodia, as it was represented and presented. There's no assignment of fault and blame that goes with that, though. Had it turned out 'right,' you would have been exclaiming your joy. If it was such a bad thing to do, why did you buy tickets... why didn't you, in your own, superior knowledge and judgement, say that it was an absurd idea and you sure weren't going to get caught up in taking a chance in going to such a corrupt area of the world. Aren't you [taking the analogy to an extreme] just as 'responsible' as Leonard and management because you bought the tickets and then plane fare on top of it? all that, when the whole venture stood such a high likelihood of cancellation? Had no one bought tickets, the idea of a concert there would have died a natural death.

Maybe no one has demanded plane fare reimbursement or anything else, but when they continue to complain and grouse about being given a cd, one wonders what beyond that gesture was expected, when concert ticket reimbursement did nothing to quell anger, and now neither does a cd.

Frankly, in these circumstances, an understanding of people's feelings and an expression of sympathy, which some have kindly offered, would seem to be a more appropriate response than posts along the lines of "if you were a true believer you would not think anyone could have made a mistake".

I've seen these very things expressed... to no avail. People are seeming to still want to continue blaming Leonard.

If Leonard hears about this disappointment and feels a little upset to have let many who love his work so much down, that would only be entirely reasonable and acceptable.

This goes WAY beyond "disappointment," Gary... and that is my point. This is personifying what has happened as being one and the same as Leonard and as Robert.

I don't mean to deny anyone their grieving of their loss of seeing Leonard in concert. This remains a situation, however, where I'm not going to sit still and say nothing when people are condemning Leonard and Robert in the process.


~ Lizzy

[GaryP27]

Lizzy, you have not seen me accuse Leonard or Kory of anything other than fallible judgement. And if the judgement were flawless there WOULD be a concert.

However, I have been careful not to express my true feelings about Chris Minko, who says he KNOWS how Cambodia operates.

As for : "Had no one bought tickets, the idea of a concert there would have died a natural death," there is a very strong possibility that this is exactly what happened. And you have now, incidentally, gone into full fan-blaming mode. How unreasonable of them to think that when Cohen's management announces a concert, there WILL be a concert and actually plan to attend it.

And "I'm a better fan than you" is just childish.

[lizzytysh]

The "fan-blaming mode" that you're referring to, Gary, was done to make the VERY point that it made. Leonard and his management don't deserve the blame any more than the fans do, but why not blame them, too? It's called "blaming the victim," no matter how you parse it. The fans are the victims... and Leonard and his management are the victims.

Why are you withholding your "true feelings" on Chris, rather than sharing them and suggesting to others that if they're going to throw handfuls of mud and see what sticks, as they process their rightful feelings of disappointment [and anger and rage], why don't they try throwing it at Chris, since he's the one who claims to know how Cambodia works. It seems he may have been suggesting that he could navigate through the corruption, and it didn't work out that way. However, it's reasonable that it was presented that he simply knows the ropes in Cambodia... the same local intelligence that would be appreciated for setting up a concert in ANY foreign country, much less such a remote one. So, if Chris approached Leonard's management with this great idea for a fundraising, charity concert in Cambodia, where all the uncertainties would not be an issue because he would know how to navigate them [knowing that if he blatantly said, "Cambodia is very corrupt, you know, but I know how to deal with it," Leonard's group may have simply said forget it]. Regardless, making a mistake in JUDGMENT does not warrant what I'm reading in this thread.

My thought is that Chris would have minimized the corruption aspect as he, at the same time, maximized his knowledge of the locals, how business operates, the money exchanges, ticket sales, securing a venue, whatever, as he claimed to know how to negotiate and navigate all that. So, IF Robert [and indirectly, Leonard] put their trust in someone they ought not to have, then BLAME and villification of motives are still not in order.

"A better fan than you" isn't the point... some basic trust in and loyalty to Leonard and Robert don't have to be about "what kind of fan" you are... they have to do with some deeper feeling for Leonard, though. And that's not childish. People throwing him under the bus, and Robert along with him, when this concert didn't work out is what's childish. Venting your anger and disappointment are not one and the same as doing that.


~ Lizzy

[GaryP27]

Loyalty is a two way thing. Let's see if the promised "postponed" concert comes off before we make a judgement on that. I would not like to see TWO promises broken. I'd rather not be furnished with the illusions in the first place.

I am skeptical. I do not think the whole team can be brought back together after a tour has ended, and all the equipment, etc. shipped right across the world. At least Cambodia can be slotted in on the way back from Australia.

I'd rather have honesty right now. Not PR. And all we have had is PR.

Some things in your post do not refer to anything I actually said. That's the danger of lumping the "critics" of Leonard together.

Leonard has fans throughout Asia - Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, American, English, French.... This is an entire region of the world. They have not been well served by even ONE show. They would have been better served by not going for the Cambodia "charity" option and going for Singapore, Hong Kong, or Tokyo, where you knew you would not disappoint your fans because the infrastructure is there to make the concert 100% come off. Heck, if it was Hong Kong even I could make the concert happen. I'm sorry, but someone made that decision, honorable though the wish to help charity might be. The flak is not entirely undeserved.

And if the big concert could not go on, we could have been given the option of a scaled down one. Most true fans would have taken it. Heck, some of us would have been happy with a book signing.

Maybe the beautiful Zen thing is to value no living artist higher, to think you have a chance for this part of your life to reach a culmination, and then for that chance to be taken away. And then to have equanimity.

It is easy to be bountiful with other people's hurt. I am not as extreme in expressing that as some, but I would not presume so much as to criticize them for it.

To you it comes across as superior sensibility, to those others it might seem a little too much like smugness.

[lizzytysh]

If I'm taken as smug, I'm taken wrongly, but this thread is teeming with that activity, anyway. It's true that I've seen Leonard perform a number of times. I don't have the list under my name. I haven't seen him as many times as many others have. I did experience almost not seeing him after I'd spent a lot of money and thought I would have to turn around and go back home, until I found a way to spend a whole bunch more money. It does feel different when that's the outcome, and I admit that. It still does not justify trashing Leonard. I know I'm not sorting through which person said exactly what, but you and I are the ones discussing this and since you are justifying the outpouring of anger, seemingly as an aspect of grieving [and grieving the loss of a life is not the same as all this], I am continuing with the generalized 'you' and whoever reads it can sort what applies to them and what doesn't.

Tell me who made a promise of a postponed concert, Gary. Unless Leonard has fired Robert and hired Mekong Sessions and Chris in his place, this does not in any way, shape, or form, constitute an official announcement or a promise by Leonard's management or Leonard:

Email from Mekong Sessions

Leonard Cohen 27 November Phnom Penh concert postponed

Leonard Cohen, Robert Kory Management, AEG Live and the Mekong Sessions regret to inform ticket holders and fans that the 27 November Phnom Penh concert has been postponed until 2011 at a date to be announced due to logistical issues insurmountable in the given time prior to the performance.

Leonard Cohen, Robert Kory Management and the Mekong Sessions thank all ticket holders and sponsors for their support and sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused.

Leonard Cohen remains committed to performing in Cambodia in 2011 and Cohen, Robert Kory Management and AEG Live retain their full confidence in the local promoter, the Mekong Sessions, and will continue to work with the local promoter to ensure the concert goes ahead following the end of the 2010 World Tour.

In recognition of the aspirations and achievements of the persons with a disability of Cambodia and the important ongoing work in their support, Leonard Cohen will be making a significant humanitarian donation reflecting his immense goodwill to the nation of Cambodia .

All ticket holders will receive full refunds. Ticket holders who purchased by cash from the Mekong Sessions should visit the Mekong Sessions office in Phnom Penh from Wednesday 10th November

[Bolding and italics mine.]

Interesting that Mekong says they [Leonard's entire group] still "retain their full confidence in [me]"! This seems nothing more than a self-serving email to me. I would say do not make the mistake of considering this a promise by Leonard or by anyone directly related to Leonard. When you see Kory making an announcement of another concert, then it becomes that. At this point, this is NOTHING more than a rumour being initiated and perpetuated by Mekong Sessions. Mekong is not Leonard's PR company or PR man. Until Leonard/his management say something regarding another concert, there isn't one. Period.

My position remains to express anger at the action, but don't attack the person... and attacking the person is what's been done in this thread, despite the empathizing and sympathizing of others.

[Harriet175]

If I'm taken as smug, I'm taken wrongly, but this thread is teeming with that activity, anyway.
My position remains to express anger at the action, but don't attack the person... and attacking the person is what's been done in this thread, despite the empathizing and sympathizing of others.

thank you Lizzy for commenting (i cannot express myself in English so well).

Having read some of these bitter accusations in the forum thread, they made me feel concerned and slightly sad (hence my ironic comment before).
I appreciate the world tour. I personally have a lot of respect for the effort behind this enterprise. About 250 concerts in about 2.5 years is a lot! There were 1, 2... concerts cancelled ...out of nearly 250 concerts (and those were scheduled late at the end of the 3 years time span). Yes some are unlucky. No-one criticized people for feeling disappointed. But there is a lot of blaming and wild finger pointing in the comments. There is a difference between feeling “pain” or "hurt" - and assigning blame on others, without knowing.

GaryP27 : It is easy to be bountiful with other people's hurt. I am not as extreme in expressing that as some, but I would not presume so much as to criticize them for it.
To you it comes across as superior sensibility, to those others it might seem a little too much like smugness.

... GaryP27 seems to misunderstand other people's understanding as "smugness", he kindly told me the same. Sensibility varies indeed from person to person.

In the forum thread i am getting the impression that Leonard Cohen is spoken "holy" by some - but then this “holy” icon seems to be used and badly treated at times!
So i decided to stop searching whether my concert tickets may have contained an extra hidden entrance ticket into heaven – i haven’t found it yet.

‘one cannot ask for mercy, not from the man'.
Yes, people praise, in the next minute they turn against the person they just praised.
This is not new. In fact in my daily life i am just witnessing that. There is no escape in the outside world. Definitely not in this forum thread.

In my modest understanding, feeling disappointed, let down, sad or “hurt” does not necessarily mean that one has a free ticket to react and lash about, 'shooting at others'. Although this has become very popular nowadays, it is not the best way. Venting one’s own anger while releasing it against others, may cause harm in different ways, naturally producing new “hurt”.

Naikan is a better albeit difficult alternative to venting, for me, but self-reflection does not allow to dwell so much in accusations...so people do not like it much and hence it is not very popular.

Some accusations feel inadequate to me, particularly, when i consider the timing at the end of about 3 years of committed & heartfelt touring- although the timing is not even relevant. Thereby it does not matter how many concerts one may or one may not have attended. Why wait until the very end of 3 years until buying a single ticket?

The world tour was...long, in 2008, in 2009 and in 2010 there were a lot of opportunities for buying a concert ticket for a suitable location – worldwide - NZ/Australia / North America / Europe - just nearly exact 250 possibilities and locations of choice!!! The world tour could not travel to every single corner on the planet. It is not up to us to decide the travel direction and schedule. Phnom Phen obviously did not make it, unfortunately, too good to be true, but alas – there were more than 240 other concerts people were invited to go to, that’s a lot! All performed with ~ heartfelt ~ commitment.

The fans were trusting and relying on the scheduled concert, the latter inexpectedly cancelled, so fans were let down. But why, for which reasons, and how? I cannot really know the details, i am in no position to be able to judge the cancellation. Yes, managements, people make mistakes...I just trust, that also the management/performer were trusting and relying when they tried to organise the event, and eventually were let down as well. They had not deliberately caused the losses and suffering of the fans, it was rather “unskilfulness” which led to the concert cancellation. To me, such thoughts are relieving. Unfortunately, fans have to pay for that unskilfulness. Still...why not also see the good-willed effort of those who did make mistakes (management,...)? Critique can be helpful...also depending on the way the criticizing is done. It is the effort and motivation of those involved which counts, to me, the motivation of those involved is primary, the outcome secondary. No reasons to doubt that the ones involved try to work it out, the best they can.
Nicole

[GaryP27]

And how many concerts in Asia Nicole? Believe it or not, it is more than just "a corner" of the world.

"Leonard Cohen remains committed to performing in Cambodia in 2011 and Cohen, Robert Kory Management and AEG Live retain their full confidence in the local promoter, the Mekong Sessions, and will continue to work with the local promoter to ensure the concert goes ahead following the end of the 2010 World Tour."

If this does not accurately reflect LC and his management's position, as Lizzy suggests, they should disavow it.

The fans deserve better.

I see from Nicole and Lizzy that LC and management deserve ALL the credit when the concerts come off and none of the criticism when they don't. Teflon is a wonderful thing.

As for "he would NEVER involve himself in any scheme or plan to deceive or rip off fans" in terms of intent that may be true. But what if we measure in terms of outcome ....? Fans certainly are ripped off.

"Why wait until the very end of 3 years until buying a single ticket?" Hey, why even HAVE any more concerts if the only people who deserve to see him should have bought the tickets in the first six months? Those who didn't surely don't deserve the respect of them going ahead. I REALLY hope Leonard does not advocate some of the views some of his "defenders" are espousing. You are doing him no favours.

Anyhow, I have a Flaming Lips concert coming and an interview with Wayne Coyne set up. That is cool.

Thankfully The Mekong Sessions had nothing to do with this one. It's actually happening.