And what's with Central and South-Eastern Europe?

[SuzanneT]

.. and Central and Eastern and Southeastern Europe not? Czech, Austria, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania ... that's great disappointment

[tomsakic]

.. and Central and Eastern and Southeastern Europe not? Czech, Austria, Slovakia, Poland, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania ... that's great disappointment

The currency rates (local money vs. dollar and Euro) and economical situation here is so LOW that I can understand.

We in Croatia are still keeping up the appearances, living our illusion, but it's falling apart. In Hungary, I hear, it's much worse. Last Summer indeed was the last Summer of happiness and we still didn't face that.

Polish zlotys came down 40%, Hungarian economy and currency collapsed, Croatian kuna is keeping the rate but artifically (still around 7 kuna for 1 euro, but in Germany it's 8.2 if you go to the ordinary exchange office). Romania and Bulgaria are even lower; you can see how did the meeting of EU, where Western countries didn't hear the cries from former Eastern block countries for help [and their economy is ruined and converted into pure consumers' society without industry in last 20 years], go - very badly. New iron curtain is taking place..

Last Summer and Fall we had annuncements for Belgrade, Zagreb, Ljubljana, Budapest, Moscow, Istambul, Venezia, and it was mentioned that those cities will be included in the 2009 continuation of the European tour. Alas...

Cheers from that part of Europe,
Tom

I am afraid there is only one city in the first list located East of Berlin (ah, just some ancient ruins in the South), but, as said before, the schedule is not yet confirmed. Hopefully we can put up the whole itinerary as soon as possible, now when local advertising has begun in two cities (Paris and Toulouse), and there are more to follow.

[Laura]

Tom! Could you please do me a favour and be just a little less depressing? I am looking for a job right now; and I see in the adds how last summer there were 3 candidates for one job and now there are 60; and sometimes it feels like jumping out that damned window is the only solution I have. You may say I want to hide my head in the sand, but there isn't much more depression I can take. Anyway, as far as I remember, being behind the Iron Curtain was a time when I couldn't even dream of seeing Cohen, here or in any other country, or complaining that he won't come to where I am! Hopefully, that's still some way away.

Laura

[hydriot]

Cheerful news for Tom and Laura: you still control your currencies and they're floating! As the economic crisis hits Croatia and Romania, your currencies will fall, making your nations far more attractive to foreign investors (cheaper labour) and tourists (cheaper tavernas), so stimulating recovery. Also, the money sent home by Croatians and Romanians working abroad becomes worth more, again stimulating jobs (more spent in your shops). Your exports become much cheaper in foreign shops, so demand for them increases, creating even more jobs in your nations. Laura, I remember some lovely wine from Romania, and I would buy it again if it were cheaper. Tom: I bet the Dalmatian coast sees a surge in tourism in 2010 as Croatia becomes known as 'good value'.

If you have an independent floating currency, your nation is in a state of stable equilibrium: falls in the currency are counterbalanced by increased demand for exports, creating jobs and boosting economic activity, and thus causing the currency to bounce back again in time.

No, the real disaster area is the eurozone. Britain and the USA have transparency and have taken their hits. But the economies of Greece, Ireland and Italy are at breaking point ... without anyone really noticing. The Greeks hate the euro, and with good reason. Locked into the euro, they cannot devalue to attract tourists back from Turkey and Bulgaria. The situation is so bad I am not keeping any money in my Greek bank account.

The euro was an idiotic idea. Just how idiotic we are all going to see in the next twelve months. So cheer up, Tom and Laura. Croatia and Romania are laughing.

[SuzanneT]

Tom!
I understand the whole economic crisis, probably in the autumn and I come on the job , but until I got it, suspended for a single money-order to buy a ticket and see LC! I even after their normal work another job, I do 14-16 hours a day, only I had the money ready when the opportunity ... You can argue that people now have other worries than concerts, but little joy should have one at all times .. do not, that should sing Leonard in each of the eastern countries but at least two or three performances would probably be able to .. I believe that would be found enough fans who would come to him ..

[Henning]

If the Euro was an idiotic idea the whole world is an idiotic idea. The Eurozone was happy about the strong economy in Spain and Ireland for a long time. Italy and Greece have always been at the edge. But we love them. Now someone has hit that big reset button and everything starts a new. Still several people, myself included, are buying expensive LC tickets which is a good thing for a good purpose. Sometimes the wind blows from the west and sometimes it comes from the east. The economy is a book with seven seals. But there is always a secure rule for a good life in the long run: Hard work on good products instead of betting on virtual values. Unfortunately UK has pissed off its industry. So I was told. Greek waiters will speed on and smile and save their country. Italy will always be Italy and have the best food in the world. Investments in East Europe will resume as soone as faith and trust in global trading is back. I know about those things, just ask me. I don't know about USA, China and India though, it's too far away from here. I am happy about the Eurozone. And I love my proud United Kingdomers. I was born European and I have that blue flag in my heart.

[david.]

the euro wasn't really an idiotic idea, but the way it happened and was enforced was incredibly naive and blindsided and greedy

but hydriot, i assure you not many people are laughing in those countries outside the eurozone either, especially the ones within the EU or tying to get in

i'm not sure the fact that those currencies still flow is something that can be seen as positive, especially since it usually flows back into the eurozone or goes into the wrong pockets anyway. the "control" you talk about is pretty non-existent.

also, the situation you're presenting in those countries, while partly accurate, is way too optimistic.

in reality new jobs are not being created, money from people working abroad flows in less and less as the economies in the west collapse and life there gets more expensive, not to mention the important surge in tourism and exports cannot even begin to cover the gaping abyss that is their import-based, euro-centered economies, virtually non-existent industry and walloping debt to foreign banks as these bought most local ones that were on the verge of disappearing when communism gave way to rampant capitalism.

things are messed up everywhere, but it only takes a visit to any of those countries to realise most people still live better in the eurozone, and will for a long while, even if the problems here are rather bad now and will probably get worse.

[Rodin]

Aren't we missing the point here?
An artist like Leonard is not going to lose money by e.g. playing a gig in Sofia or Istanbul. He will make less money than night after night in a richer country, but will enrich the lives of some poorer people.
Perhaps naive, but why can't the gigs in the richer nations 'subsidise' other gigs ?
Balls to exchange rates and economists, we've all seen where that has taken the world.
Let the artists fight back......

[Henning]

Good Point - Rodin. I wish it was like you say but except for those an stage, and even they get paid of course, the rest are there for business only and it takes plenty of costs to get a gig organized. There is no Roshi who keeps track of a spiritual balance and a fair diversification with the locations. There might be a venue or two on each tour that Leonard has suggested and expressed his wish to play there. But the rest is in the hand of the management. I wish he would come back after this world tour and play some few nice philharmonies and opera houses.

[ronnievv]

Oh well, if not mountain to Muhammad, then Muhammad to mountain, as the saying goes (I think). I personally will go to Berlin to see him (from Prague). And who knows - after this series I'm sure Leonard must be some kind of "holy man" with super-natural sources of energy (I mean, who else could do such a tour and still add more and more without dropping exhausted long ago ), so maybe, just maybe he'll come to the East (of Europe, that is) again. And if he does, I'll be there for sure, crisis or no crisis.

[tomsakic]

Laura.

my friend declined some job offers last Fall. - Now, there are NO offers at all!

Many people are happy to keep the job in the first place. My father's payment came down two times for 10% already. I am working in public institute - the government decided to withdrew the agreement with the syndicate and our payments (schools, faculties, institutes, state government) is getting down without any negotiations. And the payment itself was late for 5 days three times already (the state took every time short-term loan from a foreign bank to get it paid).

And about seeing Cohen - yes, you can (EU country), and I can (Croatia, almost-EU country - now stopped for real in getting into the EU because of the crisis).
But recall - our friends from Bosnia or Serbia can't see Cohen as they need visa to get into EU. Their only hope was Belgrade or a show in Croatia, Hungary etc.

At least, Venezia is close with the train... Or Berlin with Germanwings. But, i just hate those arenas and even RAH was to big for me after I saw LC on a small city square in Lucca, Italy, from the 5th row.

[tomsakic]

SuzanneT:

the problem are not WE - I can ensure you that crazy Croats and Serbs and Bosniaks would go to see Leonard Cohen at any price.

The problem is the economy of Leonard's touring band - it's to expensive for them to go to those countries, and even more important - the tour can be in minus or under the reasonable incomes because the money made in those countries have to be exchanged into dollars when the tour company goes out (after the show). You can even sell all tickets, or even be in the plus in the country - and then, you go out of it, change the local currency into dollars, and suddenly you made so little money that you can't pay the costs of getting all those trucks, planes, and almost 100 people to the local venue.


I am with Henning. Here we really know how hard it was WITHOUT Eurozone - and no real big investments at all because Croatian government keeps artificially steady currency more almost 15 years now (!).

The real problem was that after 1989/1990 in former Communist countries we ruined ALL industry and "real products" (the general idea was to sell factories at face value of the field, bring it all down, and make shopping malls at their places), and almost all of our economy is in the third sector. All investments in Croatia, Hungary, Poland etc. went into shopping malls; the product is completely virtual - just shopping, consumerism, cell phones, computers and various types of design (or: people selling mist).
Now, it suddenly all went down, and we see there's nothing left - no single "hardware" factory from former DDR (north) to Albania (south).

[SuzanneT]

to Tom Sakic:

... and think that it could not have at least one single concert in Eastern or Central Europe? Do you think the profits from the concerts in the richer parts of Europe have not compensate any loss? really is only about money and I want to believe that Leonard can give not only able to take it .. in Australia .. People in Eastern Europe are the same people with feelings and emotions as those from Western Europe, not inferior simply because they are poor ...

[hydriot]

I apologise to Tom and Laura if some of my comments were insensitive. Yes, it is appalling if Eastern European and Balkan governments used loans to build shopping malls and other trivia. Nonetheless, please accept that you are far better off outside the eurozone than in. The euro is unbelievably vulnerable to a predator like Soros right now. How on earth could the ECB protect it in the present economic climate? Never forget Black Wednesday: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4249425.stm .

The fundamental problem with the euro is that it links economies which are all at different points in the business cycle. Thus a few years ago Germany wanted low interest rates at the very moment the Irish economy was overheating and desperately needed high interest rates to curb inflation. Who won? Well, of course Germany, the dominant economy, did. Ireland was badly hurt, and that resentment helped fuel opposition to the Treaty of Lisbon.

I defy you to find me one working-class Greek in Greece who supports the euro. Greece is in an appalling position right now because of the euro, unable to devalue so as to curb imports, stimulate exports, and become competitive again against Bulgaria and Turkey. Any nation that abandons control of its currency loses its independence.

Rather than tying 16 nations together in a single leaking ship, don't you think it would be safer to have 16 independent currencies responsive to the economic needs of each of those nations?

[Henning]

desperately needed high interest rates to curb inflation.

That is new to me. All my agents tell me that you need low interest rates to curb inflation. I will fire them today.

Who won? Well, of course Germany

It's the same with football.