Kris Kristofferson: "Why Me"

[Steven]

Hi,

Kris Kristofferson speaks of the background of his song "Why Me" before being joined by
some others in performing the song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tA7E7pbUws.

A pivotal personal event resulted in the song. Wonder what events may have
prompted Leonard Cohen to write songs such as "Hallelujah" and "if It Be
Your Will." Yes, a supposition that there were analogous personal and specific events.
Perhaps he has spoken of them. I can't recall reading that he has.

[Diane]

A moving story from Kris K, Steven. I imagine that indeed Hallelujah and If It Be Your Will, two of LC's most remarkable songs, are similar expressions of (experiences of) acceptance and surrender.

[MaryB]

Wonder what events may have
prompted Leonard Cohen to write songs such as "Hallelujah" and "if It Be
Your Will." Yes, a supposition that there were analogous personal and specific events.
Perhaps he has spoken of them. I can't recall reading that he has.

Extremely moving Steven, thank you. Kristofersson has always been a favorite of mine.

Another of LC's songs that come to mind is "The Faith".

[Steven]

Hi MaryB,

He's a favorite of both of us.

Thank you for reminding me about "The Faith." Can understand why this song came to mind.
Found this clip today that puts very appropriate visuals to "The Faith":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI_V7BVoHGk. The visuals helped me to better
appreciate the lyrics in the song. (With God as the "love," puts the idea of asking if He's tired into human context, rendering the song far less prayer-like than "If It Be Your Will"... interesting as poetry. As a song, "If It Be Your Will" far outshines "The Faith," i.m.o. I remember not liking "The Faith" all that much the first handful of times I heard it.)

[Diane]

I'm glad you mentioned The Faith, MaryB:-)There may be more to The Faith than meets the eye, Steven. The depth of that song was first brought to my attention by Stephen Watson:

Leonard Cohen was the author of songs – one thinks of ‘If It Be Your Will’, ‘Anthem’ and ‘Love Itself’, and most recently perhaps ‘The Faith’ (from Dear Heather) – which are still among the few authentically religious songs of our time. They are such not primarily because of the traces of any particular faith which might inform them. Rather, they carry us back to the anthropological roots of religion and perhaps all spirituality: namely, our species-awareness of what ‘If It Be Your Will’ calls ‘the broken hill’ of this world and thus our need – our very great need. At the same time, whatever their point of origin in that broken place – however much Cohen himself had been, like others, a lifelong prisoner of that place – these songs rise to attain a note that is absolutely pure. And recognised or not, it is this note alone which, in the realm of artistic expression, constitutes the authentically religious. It is only purity of this order which confers a blessing.

full article: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23031

Lazily, I'm copying my own thoughts about the song from another thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16942&p=267354

The Faith is expressing the 'tireless' collective pain of humanity. Beyond that, what is the faith? That very word illustrates the difficulty trying to explain things in words, because faith can mean believing in something you have not experienced, or it can mean 'openess', to your own experience; bringing no pre-conceived ideas to it. These two definitions are opposites.

As well as allusions to the three Abrahamic religions, and the wider context of natural forces - the sea, the sun, there's a possible Zen Buddhist allusion in "Those words you can't forget.": I imagine Leonard would have worked on koans a fair amount when he was in the monastery, Joshu Sasaaki Roshi being a Rinzai Zen Master. Koans are questions/puzzles designed to create "great doubt", until they make you realise (as in to know, rather than to intellectually understand) the insubstantial nature of your self (a process described as being a deliberately-induced 'dark night of the soul'). These koans are with you day and night and very much become "words you can't forget" until they unseat your experience of your self as real, as whatever-you-think-it-is. Along with this, necessarily, your attachments/love. Students of zen are encouraged to have 'great faith' (in the possibility of enlightenment), and equally, 'great doubt'. Doubt and faith feed from each other. When you doubt your self enough, you're there!

Edit: Kris K relates in his story that he said, "I don't know", when the preacher/priest asked him if he was ready to accept Jesus; when he met his profound experience.

From a Zen perspective, 'faith' can also be characterised as surrender to the inevitability of loss (impermanence; death - so many graves). The song reminds you of how immensely difficult this is, while perhaps implying that this loss, and our fear of this loss (i.e. our love) are one and the same thing.

Love is never tired and there ain't no cure, maybe apart from when 'Love Itself' is surpassed, when it is finally "tired"; when "love itself was gone". "True love is zero," says Joshu Sasaki Roshi. Is that the faith we might have/be open to?

Watson called If It Be Your Will, Anthem, Love Itself, The Faith (I def. agree with your mention too of Hallelujah...and the list could go on) "authentically religious". I like how this tallies with J Krishnamurti's 'truth has no path' idea of religion, and also with the idea that poetry is the language-vehicle of spirituality. LC's insights are beyond definitions of religion, and valid whether you are religious or athiestic (even arch-athiest Christopher Hitchens was moved by If It Be Your Will).

((these songs) carry us back to the anthropological roots of religion and perhaps all spirituality: namely, our species-awareness of what ‘If It Be Your Will’ calls ‘the broken hill’ of this world and thus our need – our very great need.

[Steven]

Hi Diane,

Thank you for the quotes you provided and your comments on "The Faith." "a note that is absolutely pure," like
that a lot. When people strike that note, or perceive that they or others have, there's a faith-like
component at play. Purity of experience with stuff of intrinsic importance and/or the communicating of
that experience to others or to our own layers of consciousness is a working of faith. The "opposites" in
the two definitions don't preclude faith. That came across, implicitly so. Art as communion, or
whispering something of highest importance, is a carrying out of faith. Rote prayers and superficial religious
behaviors often stray from, or are devoid of, faith. The Leonard Cohen songs comprise a nice
liturgical grouping.

[Diane]

It's good to find that you are OK, Steven, and Bruce, and everyone else I know! (I have been away without TV, internet.)