The song LC dedicated to the students at Kent University

Dem · Post by **Dem** » Wed May 04, 2005 11:15 pm

35th Anniversary of Kent State Shootings

On May 4th, 1970 - 35 years ago today - National Guardsmen opened fire on a crowd of unarmed students at Kent State University. Four students were killed and nine others wounded.

LCohen many years ago dedicated a song to the four
murdered students.

The transcript that follows is from Greg's valuable site "Leonard Cohen rare live songs":
http://www.twoshakesofalambstail.com/st ... arble.html

Dem

PS) "The Democracy Now!" commemorates the 35th anniversary by airing an excerpt of the documentary, "Kent State: The Day the War Came Home" that includes interview with students and National Guardsmen who were there.
A rush transcript you can find here:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl? ... 04/1342257

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I think it was exactly two years ago today,
that I sang here, for the, the four students
at Kent University,- were shot down.
Nobody remembers that anymore.
And I dedicated this song to them, two years ago.
I haven't forgotten about it.

I still see the police out there." L.Cohen

------------------------------
Banks of Marble - LC
------------------------------
The banks are made of marble,
With a guard at every door.
And the vaults are stuffed with silver
That the line has sweated for.

I wander 'round this country,
From to shore to shinning shore,
It really made me wonder,
The things i heard and saw.

But the banks are made of marble,
With a guard at every door.
And the vaults are stuffed with silvers,
That the line has sweated for.

{ spoken }
Well i i i, i have wandered around the country,
And I see it's pretty much {?} the same.
Now I wouldn't want to try myself to start a revolution here.
'Cause I know that nobody here is ready for a revolution.
I mean you've all got your good suit of clothes in the closet.
You're still feeling pretty good about your family,
you don't want to disapoint your father.
Still building on the old bank account,
spending by defending.{?}
{ meant 'defending by spending?'- it got across anyway. }

{ sing-song }
So this ain't no time to start a revolution.
I suggest if you feel like
Organizing something
You start off with the Rotary Club.

Anyhow.
A couple of years ago they shot down four students.
I mean four students - that's not too many.
After all a tidal wave rolls in on East Pakistan
and wipes out a quarter of a million people.
And who knows how famine is used {?}.

Anyhow they, they were shot down.
In my idealistic naivete,
or from a less cheritable point of view,
in my crazy desires to win the audience to my side,
posing as the sensitive idealist,
I dedicated this song to the four students who died at Kent University.

And I'd like to make the same dedication tonight {?}

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Thu May 05, 2005 1:01 am

There is a song called "Hey Sandy" by the English folk/contemporary singer, Harvey Andrews, which deals with the same subject. I cannot find it immediately on a search but one of the lines is: "...and the words of youth, like love and truth, just ashes in the fire."

There is a partial download on: http://www.harveyandrews.com/sounds/Writer

lightning · Post by **lightning** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:25 am

Crosby Stills Nash and Young has written the best song for the occasion: Ohio. It was written by fellow Canadian Neil Young. What could be said after that? Detachment makes good Buddhists but not good activists. I am appalled by Leonard Cohen's callous comment, " 4 students, that's not too many." Same lack of affect comes through the 9/11 song on Dear Heather, I forgot its name already.

Teratogen · Post by **Teratogen** » Thu May 05, 2005 9:52 am

"tin soldiers and nixon coming/we're finally on our own/this summer i hear the drumming/four dead in ohio." great fuckin' song.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu May 05, 2005 4:14 pm

Dear Lightning ~

Leonard's comment regarding, "four students, that's not too many" was, pure and simple, sarcasm and understatement. There's no need to be offended. He was contrasting the relative, objective numbers of the four [and how others might minimize their deaths] with the objective enormity of the quarter of a million with the tidal wave, and countless more, due to famine. However, with his understatement, he underscores the importance of their lives and the wrongfulness of their deaths. He commemorated them in song.

Love,
Elizabeth

margaret · Post by **margaret** » Thu May 05, 2005 6:47 pm

Dear Lightning,

the comment was not said callously. If you like I can send you a cd of the concert, which I think was in Germany. If I remember correctly, the audience was not particularly interested in listening to his comments, they just wanted him to get on with the music. He had made a dedication at the same venue 2 years earlier and the incident was still important, although the rest of the world had seemingly forgotten it.

lightning · Post by **lightning** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:13 am

Trying to soften the blow of the loss of four students by reminding us how many more a tidal wave took doesn't seem right, as one is a blind force of nature (not yet preventable) , the other a malicious murderous act of human free will. Preventable.Had his son been one of the students would he have written those lines?

step · Post by **step** » Fri May 06, 2005 2:30 am

ALLISON KRAUSE,
JEFFERY MILLER,
SANDRA SCHEUER,
WILLIAM SCHROEDER.

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Fri May 06, 2005 3:52 am

I don't think it should be taken in that way....seems to me LC is sort of mocking the tribe of singer-songwriters (and including himself in that group) who make songs out of specific issues and tragedies and are considered heroes by the rest of us for doing that, but in fact have no real responsibilities other than writing a song for a tragedy or disaster.

"Who knows how a famine is used" [by a singer-songwriter to write songs]

"In my idealistic naivete [self explanatory]
OR
from a crazy desire to win the audience to my side[selfish motives]

But the last line - - he's saying that even after the rationalizing and seeing through the singer-songwriter's less than completely honorable position - he still has to go ahead and do the dedication anyway. Coz that's what he does, that's his thing.

I think he's looking at it in many different ways and feeling a little guilty when he sees through himself and his tribe (i.e. singer-songwriters)

p.s. Since we are talking of Springsteen in another thread this actually reminds me of a line he wrote making fun of himself writing blue-collar songs

"Its a sad funny ending to find yourself pretending
A rich man in a poor man's shirt"

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:01 pm

lightning wrote:Trying to soften the blow of the loss of four students by reminding us how many more a tidal wave took doesn't seem right, as one is a blind force of nature (not yet preventable) , the other a malicious murderous act of human free will. Preventable.Had his son been one of the students would he have written those lines?

You're seeing it totally wrong: your sentiment is here the same as LC's. It was sarcasm, as usually politicians like Henry Kissinger says "[Insert number] people - that's not too much." So, when LC said "Fours students, not too much", it's sad and sarcastic comment how everybody forget them: there were only four, and what's that for "common weal". Trying to soften the blow of the loss of four students by reminding us how many more a tidal wave took doesn't seem right - that's exactly the attitude which Leonard made ridiculous by his comment.
After all, he did sung for them in 1970, few days after it happened (at show in Frankfurt) and two years later, again in Frankfurt, he didn't forget them.

Myfair · Post by **Myfair** » Fri May 06, 2005 12:32 pm

In another time, I think it was 1964, Tom Lehrer wrote the following lines for his Song "The Folk Song Army":
So join in the folk song army!
Guitars are the weapons we bring
To the fight against poverty, war, and injustice.
Ready, aim, sing!

Now, Tom Lehrer was mainly a cabaret singer, Leonard Cohen the poet he is, somehow they both hit the same point with their words, just from a different angle!

Myfair

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri May 06, 2005 4:08 pm

Interesting, the many takes.

I stand firm on its having been sarcasm. Even the lines you quoted, Kush, I see very differently.

I don't feel at all that Leonard is being self-accusing with:

"Who knows how a famine is used" [by a singer-songwriter to write songs]

"In my idealistic naivete [self explanatory]
OR
from a crazy desire to win the audience to my side[selfish motives]

"Who knows how a famine is used" ~ I see this as a commentary on governments. Billions of dollars a year for weaponry and troops in Iraq; yet, famine perhaps the most insidious of all weapons. Our government[s] could put dollars toward feeding people, but instead allow them to die. What an efficient way of ridding the earth of all those extra bodies [this is sarcasm ~ in case anyone might see it, otherwise]. I feel that famine could be/is easily used as a weapon. The government won't ever have to worry about shooting them; they'll just die on their own.

"In my idealistic naivete" ~ to me, this continues as sarcasm; i.e. "how 'foolish' of me to think that these tactics of gunning down students wasn't necessary and shouldn't have been done." Some will/would certainly accuse me of being naive.

"from a crazy desire to win the audience to my side" ~ again, he knows he'll be accused of this, that, and the other ~ and this is one of them....that he'll be accused of using a song to gain people's favour, on the one hand; on the other hand [a duality] ~ how crazy is it to show people an alternate view, one which condemns this kind of action, and hopefully, if enough people embrace the view that this is not alright, perhaps it will actually, one day, change. Because songs are as they are, they often make their points in ways that transport those points straight to the heart.

~ Lizzy

~greg · Post by **~greg** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:19 pm

.
.
.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE !!!!!!

it was

And who knows how famine is used {?}.

--- NOTICE THE '{?}' ?

These were my transcriptions, and I tried to get them right,
but I did not.

There are many mistakes I don't know about.
But the places where I'm certain I got it wrong
--I tried to indicate with a '?',
(--or with something., --the transcripts were not done
all at the same time, and I was very inconsistent
with notations like that. )

I only put up the transcripts - what was it? - years ago? - as RFCs
(Request For Comments.) - Unfortunately I didn't get very many,
and the result is now exactly what I was most afraid of
-- people assuming they are correct, and interpreting the songs accordingly.

People - this is not good!

Now - finally - it seems I may be getting some real help
in perfecting the transcripts. I beg you - everyone - please help
-- if you have the MP3s - or by any other means
- help correct these transcripts!!!

Either discuss it here
( eg "it doesn't sound that way to me "
- or "that can't possibly be what LC is singing,
-it just doesn't make any sense") -

or mail corrections to the contact link at the site:
http://www.twoshakesofalambstail.com/st ... index.html

(the mp3s are here:
http://www.twoshakesofalambstail.com/st ... index.html

Everything must be correct before anyone
can be allowed to use these transcripts for interpretation.

It just isn't fair to LC otherwise.

( --- and all corrections must be made before I can
finally give Megan a decent product to add to the Concordance,
-and to finally thank her appropriately.)

~greg

~greg · Post by **~greg** » Fri May 06, 2005 5:53 pm

then again it is not entirely impossible
that i got at least a few of the lines right
- by shear dumb luck ....

"Who knows how famine is used'
- was how i heard it

-- but reading lizzytysh's interpretation of it here
-is the first time it's ever struck me as even remotely plausible...

:)

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri May 06, 2005 6:42 pm

Of course, it could be as Kush suggests, that singer-songwriters may exploit these tragedies for their own 'gain,' playing on the sympathies of listeners and record buyers to increase their own sales. It's a rather disparaging suggestion regarding other songwriters, but a number have participated in the 'televised song programs' for/involving fundraising for the causes, so who knows. Some here have questioned their motives. It's much more likely for Leonard to question the motives of a government than of individuals in his field; however, he could be anticipating this level of accusation being levied against himself. Perhaps, I'd have a better feeling for it if I listened to it myself, with him speaking. His voice inflections give a lot of direction toward meaning [not that I always get it right, of course

]. I just happened to interpret it on a more worldwide, truly-political scale.