the most beautiful loser

[Snow (retired)]

i've read all the reports. everything was taken away from him. he was betrayed. he was well and truly taken to the cleaners. they took his savings. all that he had worked for. his pension. his financial security. his children's inheritance. he has nothing, and still they attack. he is now the subject of cartoons and his privacy is non-existent. the national press in almost every country write about his personal troubles. he is under enormous pressure. support him. he is kind, has always been so. he is not vindictive. there is no hatred or malice in his reactions. let this be an example to us. he is an intelligent gentleman, very intelligent, but mostly he is good - through and through. what has been done to him should never happen to anyone. yet there is no outcry. he is not broken. how could anyone be so cynical as to treat someone so beautiful so badly? what is it in human nature that could make anyone do what they have done? is it only selfishness and greed? how can anybody live with themselves. can somebody at least tell him that they are sorry? will they not even admit that they did wrong? what have they done - what on earth have they done to this man. all of his life he has been creative, enriching the world with melody and wonderful texts. what did he do to anyone? what did he do to deserve this grotesque treatment? god bless you, leonard - for everything that you are.

[margaret]

Very well put Geoffrey. I'm sure all of us here feel the same.

It can only be attributed to greed, pure and simple. Fraud or theft like this often starts on a small scale with the perpetrater thinking "he won't miss it, ....won't notice...,doesn't need all this.." Before long it mounts up and becomes more and more complicated as other people join in. It's very easy to spend such a sum. We only have to look at the spending of some of the young pop stars and celebrity footballers and their wives.

I hope that now more facts are in the public domain Leonard will benefit somewhat in terms of positive sympathy and publicity and will overcome this.

[bee]

All is not so tragic, LC is not in the poorhouse yet, money still is rolling in, and will do so in the future. His children can go to work and earn their money like every one else does, and help daddy out, if needed. LC made some very bad decisions-to have an employee for a lover, than dump her, after that-to intrust her all of his moneys and biz operations-who does that? Even Virginia Hill stole from Bugsy(if I spell it right)- and Bugsy wasn't cheap, he treated Virginia well, not with the lentil soup. What can one expect the outcome would be-after activities of such nature? Is nothing to cry about, he himself behaved foolishly, besides- $5mill is not such great amount of money for man of his caliber. He'll be OK, don't worry.

[Young dr. Freud]

At last. The voice of sanity.


YdF

[Fljotsdale]

SNOW: Erm... look... I love Leonard as much as any of you - but, you know, he IS only a man! He is no saint; he is not virtue incarnate; he's as human and fallible as all the rest of us; he won't have gone through life without upsetting anyone, whether deliberately or accidentally. He hasn't lived without uttering angry and thoughless words - NO-ONE has...

So he doesn't deserve to be betrayed by friends - of course. NO-ONE does. But face facts: how many women did he betray by sleeping around with others? He doesn't know the meaning of the word 'fidelity'. I'm not holding this against him - it's part of his nature, and without it we wouldn't have the songs we enjoy so much - but we should bear in mind that some of his women will be stuffed with resentment and anger; maybe this woman who stole from him felt he owed her for HIS betrayal of her? Something to consider. She isn't evil incarnate, any more than he is virtue incarnate. WE don't know the background to this.


We - his distant friends - his friends he doesn't know personally - are here to support him, not to worship at his feet; not to bitch about those who robbed him. I didn't read about him bitching about them - did you?

Anyway - rant over. Sorry, but I had to say it. And not just to you, Snow.

[Tri-me]

Snow I agree with you. I believe we hear and see his soul in his work and it is beautiful. Yes he is a man, a man with an open heart, a broken open heart. He has shown us with his work. An artist is open target to criticism and he appears not to hold back for us. My life is richer because of his work. He is shoulder to shoulder with Rumi in my mind.

Whenever I happen to see you I forget for a while that I am ulgy In my own eyes for not winning you. I wanted you to choose me over all the other men you know because I am destroyed in their company. I have often prayed for you like this let me have her.

Fljotsdale bugs and fishes. If a woman meets a man who is charming and there is an attraction it is a wonderful thing, it is importnt to keep any situation in perspective. How many times have you heard a woman say, "He told me not to fall in love with him, he was not interested in a commitment" ? Whan a man says this he generally means it. A person should not throw their hearts away too easily. It takes a long time to genuinely love someone. There is that danerous dah stage at the beginning their marde does not stink. When I met a man with a reputation for being a ladies man I don't consider him a challenge. I am not a heavily persued woman, barely persued, rarely persued but I have learnt allot. It is wonderful to meet a man who genuinely loves women, it is hard to explain what I mean by this. There are men who love women and are very generous lovers, but do not want to amd cannot do long term very easily due to their insecurities or other stuff that prevents this. BOO HOO HOO to the women who had a physical relationship with Leonard Cohen and are feeling scorned. Pull up your green stockings and move on, just remember to enjoy YOURSELF when you make love, then if it doesn't last at least you had a great time. When will we learn to accept people (who are not Hitlers et al) for what they are and not what we want them to be?

[Young dr. Freud]

"It takes a long time to genuinely love someone"---Tri-me.

"I never stayed the night."---L. Cohen, McLeans Magazine

Leonard seems to have made a life-long habit of never staying the night. I am quite certain that he "genuinely" loves women. But only in an aggregated, clumpy sort of way. The woman as an individual doesn't seem to interest him much.

Not good for the "Art" I suppose.


YdF

[lizzytysh]

YdF ~

You obviously know little of Leonard. Check into the long-term relationships he's had with Marianne of the song, Rebecca de Mornay, and even the mother of his children, Suzanne. Not lasting the proverbial "forever" does not diminish their significance. In fact, he remains friends with the vast majority of his former lovers....a testament, as well, to his caring for the "individual" woman. One betrayal by one woman, who never rose to the status of lover, does not diminish the import of his genuine relationships with other women. Neither he nor Kelley are the first man or woman to have enjoyed consensual, casual sex. It does not logically follow that betrayal of long-term trust comes next.

~ Elizabeth

[peter danielsen]

"The woman as an individual doesn't seem to interest him much. "

You really know all about Cohen. You truly display deep insight in his work.


Peter

[lightning]

Snow: Your opening paragraph reminds me of something classic: the Book of Job. The story's been told before. It was a trial. Job got it all back, so the myth goes.

[Snow (retired)]

bee wrote:
>His children can go to work and earn their money like every one else does . . .

They "can" go to work? They DO work - perhaps a virtue inherited from their father. Are you misunderstanding something?

>LC made some very bad decisions - to have an employee for a lover, then dump her . . .

Where did you read that he "dumped" anyone?

>It's nothing to cry about, he himself behaved foolishly . . .

He trusted his closest associates - that is the foolish thing he did.

>$5mill is not such great amount of money for man of his caliber. He'll be OK, don't worry.

It was his life savings - although some rock stars earn twenty times that much in one year. He will survive, he is not ruined - he may even come triumphantly out of this, but that is hardly my point. It hurt me to know that anybody could do something to such an exceptional person.

[Young dr. Freud]

Hello Lizzytysh,

By his own admission, Leonard was never in the least bit faithful to these "long-term" women. How very sad...to have to use the word "long-term"...so unpoetical! But, as he couldn't bother to marry any of his "I'll live-with-them-only-so-long-as-it-suits-me" women---it will have to do.

One betrayal by one woman, who never rose to the status of lover,

Yes, I noticed Leonard's down-playing of their liasion too. But, don't you think it was just a tad ungentlemanly to proclaim to the world, "I never spent the night." It may be true...but still! How rude!

YdF

P.S. As for Rebecca, I was thrilled to see that you included her in the Will.

[Fljotsdale]

Fljotsdale bugs and fishes.

Bugs and fishes?

If a woman meets a man who is charming and there is an attraction it is a wonderful thing, it is importnt to keep any situation in perspective. How many times have you heard a woman say, "He told me not to fall in love with him, he was not interested in a commitment" ?

Well, never, actually. Personally, that is. On tv plays and stuff, yes, but not in RL.

Whan a man says this he generally means it.

If any man ever does actually say that, then yes - be warned and don't get involved, LOL!

A person should not throw their hearts away too easily.

Yes, of course. But it happens all the time. We are only wise AFTER the event.

It takes a long time to genuinely love someone.

I agree with this totally.

But infatuation is not love. And infatuation can happen instantaneously, be very powerful, and last quite a long time. And if the lover's infatuation fades before your own, it can be exceedingly painful, and give rise to all sorts of nasty feelings.

There is that danerous dah stage at the beginning their marde does not stink.

I don't understand this sentence.

When I met a man with a reputation for being a ladies man I don't consider him a challenge.

Would anyone?

I am not a heavily persued woman, barely persued, rarely persued but I have learnt allot. It is wonderful to meet a man who genuinely loves women, it is hard to explain what I mean by this. There are men who love women and are very generous lovers, but do not want to amd cannot do long term very easily due to their insecurities or other stuff that prevents this. BOO HOO HOO to the women who had a physical relationship with Leonard Cohen and are feeling scorned. Pull up your green stockings and move on, just remember to enjoy YOURSELF when you make love, then if it doesn't last at least you had a great time. When will we learn to accept people (who are not Hitlers et al) for what they are and not what we want them to be?

Well, me, being me, would never have dreamt of having a relationship with a 'ladies' man, LOL! Darn, you never know what you might catch!

But I agree - never expect people to be what you want them to be - they are who they are, just as we are who we are - as Leonard is who he is. And I wasn't criticising him, you know!

[lizzytysh]

YdF ~

Relationships are comprised of two individuals. I guess you've never taken note of that in your 'practice.'

Regarding Kelley Lynch, the emergence of this, particular detail is right on time.

As Peter's posting implies, you might also want to check out Leonard's art of poetry and songwriting, sometime. As long as you're proclaiming to be the expert on this gentleman.

~ Elizabeth

[lizzytysh]

Bee ~

Leonard's children do earn their money like everyone else does, and have for a long time. You've been coming here this long and have somehow missed that fact?

Estate planning is not generally for the purpose of subsidizing lazy offspring, who choose not to work; but, is rather, generally speaking, a loving act, related to the parental desire to protect and provide for their children, oftimes as a signal of love and pride in what the children have done with their own lives; and to do one's best to ensure that all will be well when the parent can no longer directly 'be there for them.' It's, in fact, considered a serious and important matter ~ and contemplating it is not morbid, and certainly more to be expected in the context of this situation than envisioning a daytime, soap opera.

Your posting does all but drip with cavalier sarcasm and disdain. Saving and accruing five million dollars is beyond my comprehension. The enormity of the shock of losing it and having furor swirl all about you is what I was trying to imagine when the thoughts that I posted on another thread came to me.

With regard to the absurdity of this quote ~ "Is nothing to cry about, he himself behaved foolishly" ~ Blaming the victim surfaces in many different kinds of crime.

~ Elizabeth