I would like to make a modest, if brilliant, proposal.
Has anyone thought about organizing a yearly reading of Beautiful Losers on Leonard's birthday -- similar to the annual reading of Joyce's ULYSSES on Bloomsday, in locations around the world?
All you would need is a locale, some copies of the book, and an audience. If you wanted to get fancy, certain excerpts might lend themselves to performance, e.g. with music.
Every September 21, all the Beautiful Losers -- and those who would LIKE to be Beautiful Losers -- could gather together and, by reading aloud, perhaps succeed where the critics failed to really get what this book is about.
And so, too, all us "Beautiful Losers" would finally have a place to stand for a few hours... once a year.
Any takers? Over to Jarkko...
A GATHERING OF BEAUTIFUL LOSERS
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humanponysss2000
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A GATHERING OF BEAUTIFUL LOSERS
Give me land, lots of land
Under starry skies above
Under starry skies above
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humanponysss2000
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Overwhelming response
Due to the overwhelmingly positive response I have received for my original post, I forwarded my suggestion to the president of the Quebec Writers' Federation.
He has yet to reply. I am sure he's as excited as I am about organizing a GATHERING OF BEAUTIFUL LOSERS on Leonard's birthday -- but maybe he's just shy.
Does no one else see the beauty of it? All the people who didn't get to be characters in the novel, and who didn't understand it when they read it, would have a chance to meet and have another shot at redemption.
Anybody out there who wants to be part of the resurrection? Or is everybody content with things as they are?
He has yet to reply. I am sure he's as excited as I am about organizing a GATHERING OF BEAUTIFUL LOSERS on Leonard's birthday -- but maybe he's just shy.
Does no one else see the beauty of it? All the people who didn't get to be characters in the novel, and who didn't understand it when they read it, would have a chance to meet and have another shot at redemption.
Anybody out there who wants to be part of the resurrection? Or is everybody content with things as they are?
Give me land, lots of land
Under starry skies above
Under starry skies above
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Tchocolatl
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Maybe he is just shy. Yes. Some passages in the book could shy many people to read the book aloud. Or to gather to listen it being read aloud. Still, it is not a bad idea. I just wonder, though : why don't you organize this yourself? Just put the setting in place and the actors would fill the place. This is what I think. Good luck.
We already have many gatherings on September 21, and we miss the date for BLosers, as we have the one for Bloomsday... But still, I like the idea of reading, so I don't see why people wouldn't try to include readings of the novel in the events... If I ever organise any kind of small local gathering here, in some club, I'll consider this idea:-)
But what character from the book would you be... It's little tricky, isn't it, I mean, you can read it, but "being" (acting?
)...
All I wanna say, there's no actuall connection between the book and Leonard's birthday, while Bloomsday goes on on the day the book's story is happening. But generally, I like the idea. It's too late for Berlin, but next event is in 2008 in Edmonton, so you can be here. What do you say, organising the evening with Beautiful Losers (reading, with music?) I think Leonard's play was performed at Montreal Event, and staging of BLosers as some kind of redital/performace would be great.
But what character from the book would you be... It's little tricky, isn't it, I mean, you can read it, but "being" (acting?
)...All I wanna say, there's no actuall connection between the book and Leonard's birthday, while Bloomsday goes on on the day the book's story is happening. But generally, I like the idea. It's too late for Berlin, but next event is in 2008 in Edmonton, so you can be here. What do you say, organising the evening with Beautiful Losers (reading, with music?) I think Leonard's play was performed at Montreal Event, and staging of BLosers as some kind of redital/performace would be great.
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
That sounds like great timing for something like this, Tom... the Event and the reading with music.
HP ~ I didn't comment previously because I'm nowhere near where you'd be doing such a thing; however, for the record, if I were, I'd attend... though likely not read. I'll be attending the Edmonton Event, though, so would love to see you act on Tom's suggestion and organize something around it for there. I'd have suggested something like that, if it had occurred to me
.
~ Lizzy
HP ~ I didn't comment previously because I'm nowhere near where you'd be doing such a thing; however, for the record, if I were, I'd attend... though likely not read. I'll be attending the Edmonton Event, though, so would love to see you act on Tom's suggestion and organize something around it for there. I'd have suggested something like that, if it had occurred to me
.~ Lizzy
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Tchocolatl
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"Actors". Not "acting".
actor
One entry found for actor.
Main Entry: ac·tor
Pronunciation: 'ak-t&r also -"tor
Function: noun
1 : one that acts : DOER
2 a : one who represents a character in a dramatic production b : a theatrical performer c : one that behaves as if acting a part
3 : one that takes part in any affair
- ac·tor·ish /-t&-rish/ adjective
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Yep, there is already the LCN on September 21. For your BL annual party, It is not necessary to be on his birthday, though you could join the event as a special part if Kim Solez is pleased with your project. But to know if he would be, you have to submit this project to him.
Yes his birthday is not necessary the absolute day for it. For me I see - don't ask me why - a dark pitch winter night in the most cosy place possible.
actor
One entry found for actor.
Main Entry: ac·tor
Pronunciation: 'ak-t&r also -"tor
Function: noun
1 : one that acts : DOER
2 a : one who represents a character in a dramatic production b : a theatrical performer c : one that behaves as if acting a part
3 : one that takes part in any affair
- ac·tor·ish /-t&-rish/ adjective
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Yep, there is already the LCN on September 21. For your BL annual party, It is not necessary to be on his birthday, though you could join the event as a special part if Kim Solez is pleased with your project. But to know if he would be, you have to submit this project to him.
Yes his birthday is not necessary the absolute day for it. For me I see - don't ask me why - a dark pitch winter night in the most cosy place possible.
And of course, Tchoco, as Edmonton is much nearer to you than Berlin, I expect to meet you in person, so that we all can see how nice people we all actually are 
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
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Tchocolatl
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- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 10:07 pm
My take is : if the correspondance is not pleasant, I expect the contact in 3D not to be better - which is not a mathematical equation, I am well aware of this - but as I pass more time mixing with LC's fan in this forum than in real life, I would prefer to have a bit of the conviviality the events are made up just around here most of the time (rather to have it once in a while every this and that year here and there in the world). Maybe the "daily" writers here should be convivial as a usual way of mixing here (vs acting like teens or kids in street gangs, or grown up bandits' gangs) before and between the events, it would be the best way to "promote" any GT.
Edmonton, I wonder if it is really more near from where I am than Berlin? In any case I would not have to cross the big pound to go. I may go in the West with "my English" try to communicate with you. Ay Ay Ay Ay take this broken waist in your hand.
It is so sweet of you to invite me to gather anyway. These days I'm under the impression I am in presence of the such nice-guy-Tom-that-is-open-to everybody-not-cliquish-at-all-but-interesting I first met when I arrived here and that gave me such a good impression. May sounds a little bit, euh... but it is true.
Edmonton, I wonder if it is really more near from where I am than Berlin? In any case I would not have to cross the big pound to go. I may go in the West with "my English" try to communicate with you. Ay Ay Ay Ay take this broken waist in your hand.
It is so sweet of you to invite me to gather anyway. These days I'm under the impression I am in presence of the such nice-guy-Tom-that-is-open-to everybody-not-cliquish-at-all-but-interesting I first met when I arrived here and that gave me such a good impression. May sounds a little bit, euh... but it is true.
You have that impression? Well, that's interesting. Maybe I *am* changing... I feel little strange last few weeks (there's short exchange on that matter between me & Geoffrey and others in some thread in Everything Else). I don't know. Mathematically: 1) I simply believe that *everything* is wrongly understood via internet as mediator, More than half of messages, posts, mails, are read in offensive way. I have many problems with that with number of people, as others had also, and everything seemed funny in personal meeting. Simply: someone says something, and the other read it as rudeness or attack. 2) I strongly believe that all Cohen fans are good people because we all have somthing in common. In my preparing for Berlin (which will be very difficult task for me, because I don't like gatherings, I never felt as part of the crowd /I even feel like the stranger and outsider on national science fiction convention, altough I was received as some kind of doyen this year because I was co-editor on one anthology this Spring, and published few essays on the matter/, and because I have big problems with *talking* English /can't do it, actually/). In my preparations for Berlin, I heard from a fan here from Zagreb, who was in Montreal and who's going with me to Berlin, that it's not about Forum, or even Cohen - that all 250 people he met there were extraordinary, each one had a story, a thing to say, everyone were amazing, and that he believes he wouldn't experience that on other convention than that of Leonard Cohen fans. That means that this mean (LC) gathers very interesting bunch of people around his work. Look at us here - most of the forums I visit are more or less dead for daays or gathered rarely on one matter, while here, well, it's complete world in this place. It is very rare.
With all things which happened recently in my life, I simply didn't think about Berlin, and now it came so suddenly, and I don't know would I even go if Jarkko didn't do something persuasive after what I hadn't way to refuse to come:-) And now I am reading the list of people, happy because I'll finally meet Dick, Joe, Margaret, Elizabeth etc etc. And I miss two regular names - Tchoco and Linda of the Lakes. Back to mathematics above: 1 + 2 = 3) I believe that in live communication everything would seem funny. You can never believe fully in what's written. I am sure that Geoffrey and I would have great time in live, drinking beer and dying of laugh with his sense of storytelling. You feel connected to all these people here on daily basis, and I feel some kind of emoton I'm gonna to meet many of them.
Edmonton is to far still, and who knows, maybe I will be so shocked after Berlin that I will decide never to go to any of the events ever:-) But I was comparing Berlin programme to NYC and Montreal, and it seems to me (sorry to say this before the actual Berlin) that home location is better in a way that many people from tha continent can come, from Stephen Scobie and Ira Nadel to Montreal professors, editors, Leonard's archivist from NYC, Perla Batalla, Leanne Ungar, bunch of people connected to Cohen professionaly what seems exciting. And his house, actual locations in NYC or Montreal... Well, were was I then. Just tonight I was reading tribute book Take This Waltz, and it's the same - so many texts by Canadians, Montreal people, people who knows background, story, etc. Anne Diamond's letter in that book is great. I think I can get that only in NYC, LA or Montreal. In Edmonton, maybe I'll bump into sisters of mercy.
In any case, thanks, Tchoco.
With all things which happened recently in my life, I simply didn't think about Berlin, and now it came so suddenly, and I don't know would I even go if Jarkko didn't do something persuasive after what I hadn't way to refuse to come:-) And now I am reading the list of people, happy because I'll finally meet Dick, Joe, Margaret, Elizabeth etc etc. And I miss two regular names - Tchoco and Linda of the Lakes. Back to mathematics above: 1 + 2 = 3) I believe that in live communication everything would seem funny. You can never believe fully in what's written. I am sure that Geoffrey and I would have great time in live, drinking beer and dying of laugh with his sense of storytelling. You feel connected to all these people here on daily basis, and I feel some kind of emoton I'm gonna to meet many of them.
Edmonton is to far still, and who knows, maybe I will be so shocked after Berlin that I will decide never to go to any of the events ever:-) But I was comparing Berlin programme to NYC and Montreal, and it seems to me (sorry to say this before the actual Berlin) that home location is better in a way that many people from tha continent can come, from Stephen Scobie and Ira Nadel to Montreal professors, editors, Leonard's archivist from NYC, Perla Batalla, Leanne Ungar, bunch of people connected to Cohen professionaly what seems exciting. And his house, actual locations in NYC or Montreal... Well, were was I then. Just tonight I was reading tribute book Take This Waltz, and it's the same - so many texts by Canadians, Montreal people, people who knows background, story, etc. Anne Diamond's letter in that book is great. I think I can get that only in NYC, LA or Montreal. In Edmonton, maybe I'll bump into sisters of mercy.
In any case, thanks, Tchoco.Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
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Tchocolatl
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I'm sure (without any doubt) that the events are great.
As for culture of forum in general, I don't think that the net is the problem, dear.
Consider the facts : People are writing to each other for centuries and they did it with all the civilities they were used to use in 3D. This is why the things were not wrongly understood to borrow your words.
All the same I think that things are not wrongly understood when people are being rude on the net. They meant to be rude most of the time. Or they expect others to be (and that others have expectations that they are able to be as rude as the more rude of the rude, like in street gangs), so now, yes, normal posts can be twisted that way (intentionnally or out of paranoia as well), but it is not because of the net. It is because of the culture of the net.
Otherwise, for centuries, people would have done the same in their correspondance on hard copies, and this was not the case, in the contrary : some people made an art out of corresponding.
So why corresponding with the net is different than on hard copy? Let see this more closely, if you are interested.
On the net this is like if people did think at some point that they are not part of a civilized society. This maybe is due to the false impression of being anonymous.
Also, I think that most forum are muddy most of the time because people are acting like young teen instead of mature adults, and this 'cause 1) it was the teen that had invaded the chatrooms and leisure forums in majority, so they imposed their culture 2) some adults are just not mature and they feel they don't have to "behave" (as if in 3D). In virtual agora (and/or where ever they could) they let go their immature sides that have not grown up yet.
3) Because people are used now to think that this is "how it goes on the net" without giving a second thought, because we are used to comply to the way the majority is acting in order of not creating waves, to go with the flow.
But as my mother told me : "if everybody throw themselves in the river, would you do it also?" Just because the majority is doing it, it is not a good reason to follow like sheep. Why not create a more near-to-the-events energy on the forum? It would be for all the best. If Cohen fans are good people, then they are able to be as good (I don't mean perfect) as they are in the event here as well. Otherwise, well... there is something wrong in your statement.
Well, great that Jarkko convinced you to go.
Congratulation for you sc-fi convention lecture.
Well. Outsider, outsider. You know. I feel like the Outsider en résidence here because I am not tightly knit to the hard core of Cohenites here, but it is fair, it is OK, it is like... natural, not forced. I think that you are naturally more near to this core then I ever been, so I'm sure you will enjoy Berlin very much.
We are all changing all the time, you know this. Everything is changing.
As for culture of forum in general, I don't think that the net is the problem, dear.
Consider the facts : People are writing to each other for centuries and they did it with all the civilities they were used to use in 3D. This is why the things were not wrongly understood to borrow your words.
All the same I think that things are not wrongly understood when people are being rude on the net. They meant to be rude most of the time. Or they expect others to be (and that others have expectations that they are able to be as rude as the more rude of the rude, like in street gangs), so now, yes, normal posts can be twisted that way (intentionnally or out of paranoia as well), but it is not because of the net. It is because of the culture of the net.
Otherwise, for centuries, people would have done the same in their correspondance on hard copies, and this was not the case, in the contrary : some people made an art out of corresponding.
So why corresponding with the net is different than on hard copy? Let see this more closely, if you are interested.
On the net this is like if people did think at some point that they are not part of a civilized society. This maybe is due to the false impression of being anonymous.
Also, I think that most forum are muddy most of the time because people are acting like young teen instead of mature adults, and this 'cause 1) it was the teen that had invaded the chatrooms and leisure forums in majority, so they imposed their culture 2) some adults are just not mature and they feel they don't have to "behave" (as if in 3D). In virtual agora (and/or where ever they could) they let go their immature sides that have not grown up yet.
3) Because people are used now to think that this is "how it goes on the net" without giving a second thought, because we are used to comply to the way the majority is acting in order of not creating waves, to go with the flow.
But as my mother told me : "if everybody throw themselves in the river, would you do it also?" Just because the majority is doing it, it is not a good reason to follow like sheep. Why not create a more near-to-the-events energy on the forum? It would be for all the best. If Cohen fans are good people, then they are able to be as good (I don't mean perfect) as they are in the event here as well. Otherwise, well... there is something wrong in your statement.
Well, great that Jarkko convinced you to go.
Congratulation for you sc-fi convention lecture.
Well. Outsider, outsider. You know. I feel like the Outsider en résidence here because I am not tightly knit to the hard core of Cohenites here, but it is fair, it is OK, it is like... natural, not forced. I think that you are naturally more near to this core then I ever been, so I'm sure you will enjoy Berlin very much.
We are all changing all the time, you know this. Everything is changing.
I agree on this letter/net comparation - people did write letters for centuries, and on web, eveyone are quite aggresive. So, amybe it is due to the medium itself. It's true.
I don't feel I am nearer to "core" of forumers or fans any neither than you are. I know only two people personally from this forum, Jurica, and Nenad from Budapest. So, it's like some kind of imaginary world. Imaginarium, is there such a word? We're all like some kind of animals in Borges' fictional encyclopaedia of animals
I don't feel I am nearer to "core" of forumers or fans any neither than you are. I know only two people personally from this forum, Jurica, and Nenad from Budapest. So, it's like some kind of imaginary world. Imaginarium, is there such a word? We're all like some kind of animals in Borges' fictional encyclopaedia of animals
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
Humanpony,
You have a good idea, but I'm not sure how popular it would become. Kim Solez started Leonard Cohen nights and has had some success in Edmunton, but I don't believe that it is very wide spread. The chancellor of the university where I work, is a James Joyce scholar and attempted to implement a Bloomsday here in Madison, but it only lasted one year. Kim is determined so he may succeed eventually, but it would take your best effort to make it happen. Good luck to you.
Tom and Tchoco,
I am enjoying your pleasant conversation very much. Tom, I look forward to meeting you. Tchoco, I would love to meet you also-perhaps in Edmunton. While I was looking forward to my first event which was Hydra, I was quite curious about not only what people would be like in person, but how the event would go. My wife was quite fearful (as I'm sure were many other spouses) that we would be droning on about Leonard Cohen. First off, we found that even the people who knew each other from the old news group and had met in Montreal two years prior were very welcoming and inclusive. Perhaps some of the tenor of the event was created by the lovely surroundings of Hydra and the Aegean, but we discovered that it was mostly about having fun. Music and convivality were the centerpiece as the days wound into the late nights.
New York was exciting and had a similar festive atmosphere. There is certainly more emphasis placed on musical performance and less on scholarship. We can do scholarship on our own time, these events are for having fun. And after having said that, I realize that the committees who plan the events are free to craft them in their own way. They will simply be more successful in attracting people if the are designed for people to have fun.
Some people who attend used to take part in news group or forum and were turned off by some of the negativity that takes place, but they still love to attend the events. In my opinion, I believe that the negativity is culturally programmed as early internet usage was characterized by "flame wars." So we can blame those early adopters for the bad behavior! And remain blameless, ourselves.
To post to a forum, one can adopt a whole new persona with a new name and recreate a new being. This is much like how change is accomplished in the real world. I chose to remain old Joe Way who grew up listening to Leonard in Tigerton, Wisconsin and is now a gray haired hotelier/public servant who uses his vacation to meet friends from all over the world who enjoy some aspect of Leonard and like to have fun. I wish that I could say sitting on my ass has improved my face! But perhaps it has improved my patience and that, in turn, improves my civility.
Joe
You have a good idea, but I'm not sure how popular it would become. Kim Solez started Leonard Cohen nights and has had some success in Edmunton, but I don't believe that it is very wide spread. The chancellor of the university where I work, is a James Joyce scholar and attempted to implement a Bloomsday here in Madison, but it only lasted one year. Kim is determined so he may succeed eventually, but it would take your best effort to make it happen. Good luck to you.
Tom and Tchoco,
I am enjoying your pleasant conversation very much. Tom, I look forward to meeting you. Tchoco, I would love to meet you also-perhaps in Edmunton. While I was looking forward to my first event which was Hydra, I was quite curious about not only what people would be like in person, but how the event would go. My wife was quite fearful (as I'm sure were many other spouses) that we would be droning on about Leonard Cohen. First off, we found that even the people who knew each other from the old news group and had met in Montreal two years prior were very welcoming and inclusive. Perhaps some of the tenor of the event was created by the lovely surroundings of Hydra and the Aegean, but we discovered that it was mostly about having fun. Music and convivality were the centerpiece as the days wound into the late nights.
New York was exciting and had a similar festive atmosphere. There is certainly more emphasis placed on musical performance and less on scholarship. We can do scholarship on our own time, these events are for having fun. And after having said that, I realize that the committees who plan the events are free to craft them in their own way. They will simply be more successful in attracting people if the are designed for people to have fun.
Some people who attend used to take part in news group or forum and were turned off by some of the negativity that takes place, but they still love to attend the events. In my opinion, I believe that the negativity is culturally programmed as early internet usage was characterized by "flame wars." So we can blame those early adopters for the bad behavior! And remain blameless, ourselves.
To post to a forum, one can adopt a whole new persona with a new name and recreate a new being. This is much like how change is accomplished in the real world. I chose to remain old Joe Way who grew up listening to Leonard in Tigerton, Wisconsin and is now a gray haired hotelier/public servant who uses his vacation to meet friends from all over the world who enjoy some aspect of Leonard and like to have fun. I wish that I could say sitting on my ass has improved my face! But perhaps it has improved my patience and that, in turn, improves my civility.
Joe
.
Tchocolatl,
I really hope you will take a chance and meet some of us one day, perhaps at Edmonton. I was a little wary at first about meeting people I only communicated with on this forum, but meeting other Brits at local gatherings first, I was surprised how well we got on. It was like we had known each other for a long time. The same was true at the event in New York and the mini-meeting on Hydra last summer.
Of course there will always be one or two individuals who will never be buddies, but that's life! There are more than enough other people who enjoy each others company to make the events a great success. I am looking forward to seeing old friends again and meeting others I've been coresponding with for a couple of years for the first time.
It's true that the internet sometimes makes people behave strangely, and invent a new personality by being anonymous, but overall the positive far outweighs this negative aspect.
Margaret
I really hope you will take a chance and meet some of us one day, perhaps at Edmonton. I was a little wary at first about meeting people I only communicated with on this forum, but meeting other Brits at local gatherings first, I was surprised how well we got on. It was like we had known each other for a long time. The same was true at the event in New York and the mini-meeting on Hydra last summer.
Of course there will always be one or two individuals who will never be buddies, but that's life! There are more than enough other people who enjoy each others company to make the events a great success. I am looking forward to seeing old friends again and meeting others I've been coresponding with for a couple of years for the first time.
It's true that the internet sometimes makes people behave strangely, and invent a new personality by being anonymous, but overall the positive far outweighs this negative aspect.
Margaret
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Tchocolatl
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I was to answer "nay-nay-nay, I meant : the net is not the problem". But then your post made me think to something : how many letters were thrown to fire before a final one was sent (and how many letters were intercepted (out of having giving the matter a second thought) by the sender before the adresse could put the hand on it? And how many fingers clicked on the mouse before thinking twice and having the possibility to do it? Snail mail vs email. (morality : Driving fast and corresponding fast can hurt.Tom Sakic wrote:I agree on this letter/net comparation - people did write letters for centuries, and on web, eveyone are quite aggresive. So, amybe it is due to the medium itself. It's true.
)But yet, we are back to the culture of the users of the tools. We can not escape ourselves.
Joe, your argumentation is implacable : If having fun is the main goal, well, count me in.
Margaret, I would love to meet you too, really.
Finally I consider more and more seriously to go to Edmonton. It is far enough in time for me to take a decision about it.