Manna wrote:My hunch is this book will be more helpful to you if you remain part of the discussion. Isn't the point of this book to be helpful to anyone who is in a place where it can be helpful? That idea has been thrown around, yeah? I'm staying.
Hi Manna
Yes that idea has been tossed around. The way to approach it has been multiple. The approach that I have tried to take came from reading something that Leonard said about how there can be poetry in everything, poetry in the National Geographic, in the newspapers and then he went on to say that the approach you take will depend on how you want to live your life.
You can be the subject, and poetry can be the object. You can keep the subject/object relationship, and that's completely legitimate. It is the point of view of the scholar. But I wanted to live this world.
and then he went on to say "So that was poetry to me, and I think it's available to everybody"
So the approach I took was that if I was going to go through this book with everyone that I was going to try to throw my life into it. I was going to try to live it. There are limits to that. You can't live your life in a book that has already been written, one that you don't know where it is going and one where someone else is turning the pages. But what I thought I could do in this book that has already been written is let myself be an object that has already happened. I'm not here to bleed for anyone or to get embarrased or humilated or suffer any great pain. That's not going to happen for the simple reaon that it already has happened a long time ago. I'm willing to show my scars.
What might be obvious to you now is that deep inside I don't really give a flying fuck about knowing the details of Leonard's life and what his poems mean to him. The people here, including you, mean a lot more to me than he does and I have no problem with doing whatever the hell I want with his poems and songs to get to know you better.
Manna since you seem to have an interest in my thoughts about this book and since you told me that you were going to stay I thought that I should tell you what I'm trying to do here, which I just did to the limited extent that I can.
And since you joined here only recently I would like to give you a brief review of where I am so far.
Leonard wrote some stuff and we talked about it. Generally I felt that I related to what he was writing about. There was a lot of stuff that seemed to be outside of my experience and remains a mystery to me. The first part seemed to be about himself and God. Then he got to a part where he said that now was the time to get down to business and he started writing about "the other". His thoughts on the subject led one person, Simon, to consider something called "the Covenant of Alast" which was a time before things went wrong when we were all in harmony with one another and so probably it was a time when we could all love one another. It was at a time before the world began.
That suggested to me that there might be some kind of fundamental ground where people can reconnect. This opened my mind to the idea of going back and the thought that followed was I guess that we can go back but I am pretty sure that we can't go back all the way. I thought that this was being addressed on the page we are on.
That brings us to the page we are on.
On this page I would listen very carefully to what you had to say. I would like to see you having a dialogue about what was written. But since Leonard is not here to talk to you about what he wrote and since no one else seems interested in doing what I think can be done I thought that I would write here aboout something that happened to me that I feel that the prayer is addressing. It is something that I have already poster here when I came across Leonard writing "my prayer divided against itself".
Let me know Manna if to your way of thinking it relates to what Leonard is speaking about when someone is being summoned back by a "She"
It happened a long long time ago. I was living in a large house
shared by many people. It was during a time in my life when I felt it
to be a matter of great importance that I learn to pray. The idea had
been placed in my head that a person could pray in such a way that
they gather all that they are and place it into a prayer to Who cannot
be imaged in any way.
I didn't know how to pray like that but I was trying and it was a
struggle. I had the idea that I would often used words with people
more to conceal than to reveal and had developed some language
habits which reflected this and so it seemed really hard for me to
pray in a way that was honest but as I said I was trying.
The room that I liked to use to pray was one in which many
plants were growing. It was the plant room because it had so
many windows and even at night the moonlight and starlight and
faint far away streetlights came through the window and so it was
late one night when every one was asleep and I was in that room
praying.
I'm not sure how I looked praying in that room with the moonlight on
me. I'm not sure if the struggle I was having looked like pain or
what. The reason that I mentioned the way I might have looked was
that during my prayer I found that I was being looked at. I noticed
that in the doorway I was being watched by an Indian maiden. I use the
word maiden because it seems to suit somehow.
In the house was living a very beautiful young woman who during the
day was always attired in a very conservative way wearing very long
dresses etc. and always having her long hair neatly braided and worn
high. That night when I looked at her standing in the doorway watching
me pray her hair was flowing freely and flowed far pass her midsection
and she was wearing only a thin nightshirt.
I had been praying on my knees.
When she saw that I had noticed her she came over to me and said that
she wanted to pray with me and then knelt in front of me and put her
arms around me and her hair flowed around both of us and on the
carpet. Under her hair I placed my arms around her as well. I had been
practicing celibacy for a number of years at the time. The body that
I felt pressing against me which I felt in my hands seemed to be the
most desireable thing that I had ever known in my life.
It became even harder to pray. I seemed to be placed in a conflict that
threatened to tear me apart. It seemed like I had to choose between
the soul and the body but I also had to do it quickly before they both
dissappeared. There didn't seem to be any end to how large the
conflict could become.
I did something that night that I knew would be forever counted
against me as my shame and if it wasn't I knew that it would be my
duty to make the case that it should: I didn't push her away.
I did something else that I knew for certain would make me someone to
be laughed at for my remaining days: I didn't stop praying.
The only way to end the conflict that seemed to be tearing me apart
was to come apart.
It seemed to me that she wanted me to love her in a way that I
couldn't love her and it also seemed that God wanted me to love Him in
a way I couldn't love and so I found myself trying to find a place in
the middle. Love was out of my control. I could only love her to the
extent that God allowed and I could only approach God to the extent
that she allowed. You might say that ever since I have been trying to
find a way to be part of the two sides of something getting back
together.
Manna if you think this is not too far off on a tangent and that it relates to the prayer we are looking at and if you want to know more I would be happy to tell you whatever you want to know. (provided you think it might be fun)